Making the transition to tubulars

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
addictR1
Posts: 1258
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:11 am

by addictR1

Geoff wrote:
@addictR1, at 150ish, you can very safely run 100/110ish in the dry, and 90/100ish in the wet. If you are running super-deep carbon wheels (I mean the rim bed sidewalls, not just the overall rim depth, like Hed Stingers, or something), then you should run the 25s on the rear, to avoid pinch-flats without sacrificing ride comfort and adding rolling resistance caused by running the rear so hard.


Thanks Geoff. Will be running on aero72


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by Weenie


Geoff
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

Very interesting. Let us know what you think.

Shrike
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:08 pm

by Shrike

Finished another layer of glueing, and have new questions emerging!

Tubular suggested pressures seem to be much higher than I'm used to. I'd normally run 90/95 on my 25mm clinchers, and sometimes go lower to 87/93.

What sort of tubular pressures are you guys running? I'm 80kg (yes I know, I'm dieting at the moment :P ).

All the charts are really high :x Am looking for a comfy pinch flat free ride here!

Geoff
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Location: Canada

by Geoff

I guess it depends which tire/rim combo you are running.

I am actually bit surprised to see that you are running clinchers in the low 90s at 80kg without pinch-flats. You can certainly run a 25mm tubular that low. They race Paris-Roubaix with 27s at sub-80 pretty regularly. I have a set of 'pave' Nemesis 32s that I have shod with Dugast seta 27s and I run those mid-to-low-80s. I have some Conti Competition 25s that I run on the rear of Hed Stinger 9s. Those have pretty deep rim bed edges and are prone to pinch flats, hence the 25s. I run those at 110ish.

I personally prefer to run 23s and run them 100/110ish on 'regular' roads (I am 60kg). That is just a preference. I fully appreciate that the tires will be less comfy and actually slower (from a rolling resistance perspective) with that much pressure, but I like the way they handle better. In the wet, I will run them a bit softer for better traction.

beatle
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:08 pm

by beatle

While we are on the topic of pressures:

I am ~72 kg riding 50 mm deep carbon wheels with veloflex roubaixs (25 mm).
What would you ride on roads that are pretty good for this setup for lowest Crr?

I had been riding front 82 psi and rear 87 psi but have started trying higher pressures. What instigated this is that my bike was in the shop and I was riding my backup which has alloy rims (~25 mm depth or so) and 25 mm rear, 23 mm front IRC Formula light tubeless (love these btw) and they honestly felt a lot faster. I hate to even write that and maybe it is that I have been reading all the reports of tubeless starting to dominate in the Crr wars. I rode tubeless before switching to tubular but I am starting to wonder if I should go back to tubeless for best Crr.

???

Geoff
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

Personally? I actually like the 'feel' of a harder tire, even though I know it is slower. I only run the 25 on the rear, as I also prefer the 23s (again, even though I know it is slower). A 25 on the rear always feels 'squishy' to me. I would prefer to run a pair of 23s, but the current trend toward taller rim bed walls makes that impractical due to the pinch flat potential.

Can you run 25s front and rear and run them mid/low 80s in the front and mid/low 90s rear and have absolutely no problems? I would bet money on that. Would they be faster than the same set-up at 100/110? I bet money on that, too. Are they faster than my 23s, I have no doubt. I just don't like the road feel of them that way.

With respect to tubeless, it makes some sense to me that they roll a bit faster, as there is no casing/tube friction. They do, however, have a lot of structure in the sidewall as compared to a handmade tubular, so I think that there might be a difference there that needs to be considered. Most Crr 'studies' use a steel roller, which isn't the same as a road. I still think that the way a really supple tubular 'rolls' over road imperfections makes it faster in the real world (which is why a softer tire rolls better than a harder tire).

I have been running two sets of tubeless (Dura-Ace and Shamals) for a long-term test. I have to say that despite my original misgivings, the tubeless tires are actually ok. I am toying with the idea of expanding my sample size to include one of the new tubeless-compatible deep carbon wheelsets (I am thinking of the Zipps or the Enves as being representative of the genre). They aren't tubulars, though, and more of a pain to install!

beatle
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:08 pm

by beatle

Cheers

addictR1
Posts: 1258
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:11 am

by addictR1

Geoff, I tried 25mm and like you it felt squishy and I didn't feel I'm faster compared to 23mm.


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Geoff
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

I really believe that the larger-diameter tires are faster. I still like to use the 23s (and the FMB 23s are really closer to 22s). I think 'feeling' fast and 'being fast' are two different things with tubulars and Crr. I think the ability to 'feel' what the bike is doing is worth the cost.

vamoots58
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:46 am

by vamoots58

I weigh 83kg and ride 25mm tubulars on three different wheel sets. Campy Bora Ultra 2, ENVE 25, Corima Aero S+. I always run around 90 lbs front and rear (My Silca gauge shows 80 & 100). I ride FMB Roubaix and Comp CX, Veloflex Roubaix, and Dugast Strada (I like to switch around between these four).

Zoro
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am

by Zoro

sungod wrote:yep, that's the downside of latex tubes

in prep for long rides i tend to over-inflate a bit on the basis they'll lose some
You can put about a thimble full of talc powder in (use a dry Stans bottle). That will greatly reduce air loss.

addictR1
Posts: 1258
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:11 am

by addictR1

Zoro wrote:
sungod wrote:yep, that's the downside of latex tubes

in prep for long rides i tend to over-inflate a bit on the basis they'll lose some
You can put about a thimble full of talc powder in (use a dry Stans bottle). That will greatly reduce air loss.



You mean put into the latex tube and then pump up?


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Greg66
Posts: 243
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:06 pm

by Greg66

Well, my "transition " is complete. Three years ago after 25 years on clinchers, I bulged the side all of a carbon clincher and started looking at the tubular threads here.

BU 50s for my nice road bike followed, then 808s/Super 9 for my tri bike. On Friday I got my hands on Bora One 35s with the AC3 brake surface, which I'm going to run in wet conditions daily with the BU 50s coming out on dry days. And that means I've ditched my last clincher wheel set (passed on to family).

Thanks, WW! Wish I'd done it years ago...

Geoff
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

Good!

leej88
Posts: 329
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:22 am

by leej88

I'm running a pair of Lightweight Meilenstein Schwarz (20/20) with 25mm Lightweight Edition Continental Competition Tubulars (with Miyata TTP-1 tub tape).

Thinking of running some better tyres.

Have narrowed it down to:
1. FMB Service Course (silk)
2. Vittoria Corsa Graphene G+
3. Veloflex Carbon

I've had great experience with Continental tyres and have never gotten a flat for the past 8 years so I guess the roads around my place are really well paved. However, that does not mean I'm willing to sacrifice puncture resistance for a marginally better ride quality.

Anyone here have any experience with FMB tyres? Do they really ride that much better?

by Weenie


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