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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:05 am 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 1621
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
I use the two tubs strapped under the saddle on on bike but that works when its dry. I have to renew the glue more than once on those spares.

The main bike with tubs has two Pave 25mm tubs contained within a large Topeak dry wedge saddle bag. It does not look too bad and it keeps them nice and dry. I mount a frame fit pump and the multi tool, keys, phone, money and the like get put in the tool pouch secured in the King bottle cage I have. My back pockets are for food. This way if I am on a long 200km ride I can carry alot of food.

the problem with carrying a tufo tub as a spare it means changing the tub again when I get home. Why not carry as a spare what you ride on that way once the spare is mounted it can stay on.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:32 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:58 am
Posts: 833
Location: 604
So you're saying that you would just keep riding a pre-glued tire without re-gluing the rim surface after flatting?


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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:32 am 


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:07 am 
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Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5796
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
Why not carry as a spare what you ride on that way once the spare is mounted it can stay on.


I'm well aware of the fact that the two layers of rim cement may well reactivate each other but how safe is this?
It may all be very well with a relatively freshly glued spare and ditto rim but after that?

I really wish no unsafe advise were given on forums, I really do.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:44 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am
Posts: 251
kulivontot wrote:
Zoro wrote:
I'd prefer you not make condescending comments to me about science guys of the past that have nothing to do with tyres.


You must be new here.

Yes I am


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am
Posts: 251
fdegrove wrote:
Hi,...
Right. Basic laws of physics. That's what it was about. Mind you, if you didn't keep asking the same questions over and over again...?

All the other stuff aside, I had asked what basic laws apply.
I think the gas laws apply. Charles certainly. What basic - "Newtonian" laws apply to tyres?

Its true, I don't know your professional career, but in mine, I have to know the basic laws of physics. I'm just stumped as to which ones apply.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:53 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am
Posts: 251
Repeat post, but you may like these. 25mm, silk, raw casing, record tread. They are as supple as my Veloflex records - but bigger. I will not be pumping these to 130, or 120, or even 110. But then, the cost of case flex is low (which is why I had them made).
Image


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:25 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Posts: 4521
Location: Canada
Hmmm. Who made those for you? What tread?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am
Posts: 251
Geoff wrote:
Hmmm. Who made those for you? What tread?
Francois - FMB. Tread is the record/diamond. Vittoria sourced I expect. Says "Made in Thailand" on the tread like the FMB Competition CX - which is Vittoria sourced.

FWIW - on the what is done/recommended column. I asked on these specific tyres.

Q (Zoro):What pressure psi/bar do you recommend for a 65kg racer on smooth roads?
A (Francois):9 bars is correct , do not bounce on the road .

That is a recommendation of 132psi for a 65kg rider on a smooth road in a 25mm silk tyre

As I posted, I will go lower, because on these, the cost for going lower - is low. On stiffer tyres - I go higher (I know that is swapped from what most believe) because case deflection is much more energy robbing on a stiff case.

Image
Image


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:52 am 
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Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5796
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
On stiffer tyres - I go higher (I know that is swapped from what most believe) because case deflection is much more energy robbing on a stiff case.


You still don't get it, do you Newton?

Allow me to spell it out for you: when pumped up high enough these stiff casings won't deflect.

Surely I don't need to tell you either that the wings of a plane need to be flexible as well or they'd break?

Quote:
That is a recommendation of 132psi for a 65kg rider on a smooth road in a 25mm silk tyre


Brilliant. Makes you wonder what he'd recommend for a 20mm wide tub regardless silk or cotton casing.........

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:05 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am
Posts: 251
fdegrove wrote:
Allow me to spell it out for you: when pumped up high enough these stiff casings won't deflect.

I got that part. Then don't pump them so high. I've never advocated over pumping. You just have said I do.

Pump them so they deflect less. Because the deflection of a stiff tyre cost more in rolling resistance than the deflection is a supple tyre. The air is elastic, the rubber and case sides are not. A stiff tyre has a much smaller rage of pressure it works well at. A supple tyre can ride well at a wide range of pressure.

Another picture, just thought it was worth seeing visually. Both tyres are pumped to the same low 30 PSI. They are roughly the same size. The black one can be ridden like this. The silk - I have no plans to try that. If the blck tyre was ridden like that (it was last week) it would get hot due to the friction of bending the casing back and forth. That is where all the rider energy goes - heat from bending the casing. Of course neither tyre should be ridden to a high degree of deformation, and neither to a point where it is leaving the ground. But deformation is particularly costly on the stiff tyre - and why I would inflate to minimize the deflection - without overinflating it.

Image


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:20 am
Posts: 348
I wanted to make a separate thread asking this question, but I came to the conclusion that it would be moved into here anyway, so here goes ::

I ride in Salt Lake City, Utah. I am fully committed to experiencing what tubulars are all about. I've read this thread (among many others), and have decided that I want to know for myself what they're all about. However, these will be used as my primary wheelset's tires. Living here comes with a few drawbacks - filthy roads are one of those drawbacks. Is it insane to think that tubulars will be capable of being my primary setup given the circumstances? Or do I concede to the convenience of clinchers forevermore?

Cheers guys!

(Hoping for SLC riders to chime in here :-] )


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:58 am
Posts: 833
Location: 604
I can't speak to the road conditions there but I'd say go for it and keep your eyes on what you are riding over. Maybe go for a Conti Competitions in the 25 width for some extra robustness. If you really want to ride tubulars it's not that expensive if you are willing to do repairs or send your flats to tire alert.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:20 pm 
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Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5796
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
Is it insane to think that tubulars will be capable of being my primary setup given the circumstances?


Not sure what you're current experience with clinchers is in your particular area but unless you experience punctures on a (very) regular basis then I'd give tubulars a try.
Keep in mind that some tubulars aren't all that different from their clincher counterpart. IOW, a lousy tyre is still a lousy tyre regardless whether clincher or tub.

I realize it's a rather costly experiment but why not try out a set of Veloflex or one of the finer Vittoria clinchers with a nice latex inner tube? That would give you a very good idea of what to expect from the better tubulars.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:20 am
Posts: 348
The plan is to go with the Veloflex Arenberg (25mm). I don't dare mention how often I puncture, lest I tempt the gods.

I am interested in hearing more about Tire Alert.


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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:23 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:29 am
Posts: 178
fdegrove wrote:
Never found a saddlebag that can hold a tub and be elegant at the same time.


I no longer have this Hampsten, but the Arundel Tubi bag is on my new Hampsten. It's a tight fit to get the spare inside, but I think it looks good on the bike. From the rear it's only as wide as the tubular, so it's got a small frontal profile. The straps go over the rails and under the bag so it's very secure and stable, and I like that there's no strap around the seatpost itself.

Image

For really long/remote riding I will sometimes take two spares in a Jandd bag. It's a bit bulkier than the Tubi, but does protect two glued tires. It's still fairly narrow, but longer and taller as shown in the photo.

Image


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