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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Location: Canada
Are they stiffer than steel spokes? Maybe, but I can honestly say I don't notice it at all from a ride perspective. Now, I ride stiff bikes, so maybe that has something to do with it, too. If you ride them with fat tubeless (which I recommend you do), you should have no problems. From the perspective of cross-winds, I have been on the Shamals all season and haven't really noticed it. That may be also just be because we are used to big winds (ask Simon Geschke about our winds here!). If you can handle any modern 40mm-ish wheel, you should not have any problems.

As part of my tubeless experiment, I am running Shimano C24's on all of my Shimano bikes. That is another great wheelset as tubeless. The tubeless tires did not seal-up as easily for me as the Campagnolo set did (took a bit more sealant to get perfect). Also, as a tip, when you get them, toss the Shimano stems inn the trash and put a set of removable-core stems on instead. I used a set of Stans stems, but any tubeless stem with a removable core will work fine.

As between the Shamals and the C-24's, I think the C-24's look better, but the Shamals have a nicer overall 'feel', if that makes any sense.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:43 pm 
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fdegrove wrote:
they offer almost zero vertical flex which make them feel harsh and uncomfy. Lack of comfort invariably induces muscle fatigue in the long run.


Fdegrove said it before I could :thumbup:


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Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:43 pm 
  • 81.90 € (including 19% VAT)
  • 439 components


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:41 pm 
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Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
Timujin wrote:
Hi Mate. From Ribble.

When reducing by VAT, the dont give you full 20%.. but its around 17-18% off..
Timujin wrote:
mr_tim wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/puz6j7f" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So that's £ 486 without the VAT.


it works out to be £507. they never give you full VAT, a little admin is charged for paperwork which is fair enough..
You are "getting" full VAT. VAT is 20%, so if the price with VAT is x, then the price without VAX is x/1.2 (or x/1,2 european style), NOT x*0.8. So this means that 16.67% is deducted from the price with VAT to get the price without VAT.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:48 pm 
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Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
If you ride them with fat tubeless (which I recommend you do), you should have no problems.


True. Going for wider (heavier and often less aero) tyres certainly helps cushioning the vertically stiff wheels (and/or bikes).
Wider tyres have a higher volume of air compared to narrower ones and should be run at lower pressure as well.

In the old days most shallow rims (tubs mostly) were pretty flexible vertically (especially noticeable on a bare rim) and invariably came with a high number of steel spokes. They were still very comfortable wheels even with narrowish tyres.
People who have had the opportunity to compare (on a fair basis) a set of Campa Neutrons and a set of Campa's Hyperons side by side will notice the difference in vertical flex straight away. The only difference between the two sets is in the rim material ; the Neutrons come with a metal rim, the Hyperons sport a carbon one. Everything else is basically the same.

Subjectively though the Hyperons feel way more stiff in the vertical plane, the Neutrons OTOH are although quite a bit heavier, way more easy going.

All in all there's a good reason for the current trend to run (sometimes silly) wide tyres but, as always, there's invariably a compromise involved somehow.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:48 am 
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Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada.
r_mutt wrote:
i don't think you can get the DA24 to work with Campag. i looked into it and ran into a dead end.


http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/09/bikes-and-tech/drivetrain-compatibility-hidden-in-plain-sight_303199

You can run 9000 C24s with a Shimano/SRAM 11 speed cassette on your Campy rig and you'll be fine.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:10 am 
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hmai18 wrote:
r_mutt wrote:
i don't think you can get the DA24 to work with Campag. i looked into it and ran into a dead end.


http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/09/bikes-and-tech/drivetrain-compatibility-hidden-in-plain-sight_303199

You can run 9000 C24s with a Shimano/SRAM 11 speed cassette on your Campy rig and you'll be fine.


Now this would make me want to get those... 24mm carbon alu and super stiff rim... Thanks hmai18


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:37 am 
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DA24 with Campag = wrong.

They are nice hoops though a bit wet behind the ears. Very nice ride quality and hubs though.

Alu spokes = harsh. No getting away from that. Not a big issue if you only ride smooth roads.

In their defence they do make for a robust wheel.

Fat alu spokes are around the same handling wise at 50mm rimes with narrow steel spokes. But none of the aero benefit.

My impression is FFWD add a fair bit of safety pork to their carbon clinchers.

I had a pair of FFWD F4R carbon clinchers in 40mm (40 something) format. Too heavy at the rim. Sold them after 3 weeks.

OTOH the F4R tubs I have were a steal and are up there near Boras IMO.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:58 am 
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sawyer wrote:
DA24 with Campag = wrong.

They are nice hoops though a bit wet behind the ears. Very nice ride quality and hubs though.

Alu spokes = harsh. No getting away from that. Not a big issue if you only ride smooth roads.

In their defence they do make for a robust wheel.

Fat alu spokes are around the same handling wise at 50mm rimes with narrow steel spokes. But none of the aero benefit.

My impression is FFWD add a fair bit of safety pork to their carbon clinchers.

I had a pair of FFWD F4R carbon clinchers in 40mm (40 something) format. Too heavy at the rim. Sold them after 3 weeks.

OTOH the F4R tubs I have were a steal and are up there near Boras IMO.


Im all the more confused now.. i have a set of fulcrum racing 3's in the store room, might dust them off and use them.. they are heavy and I hate them but spend £500, or wait till summer and treat myself to Bora 2s......


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:04 am 
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I have several great replies.. many thanks to all.. still in the process of looking, will try the f2r's soon... then I can judge between those and the shamal's


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:53 pm 
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Location: The Netherlands
See if you can find a pair of second hand or new old stock FRM FL-R 21 Aerolite wheels. These weigh between around 1325 grams and look very nice.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:02 pm 
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Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and was wondering if I could get some help making a wheel decision.
Flo 30s(20/28) vs a custom wheel (pancenti sl23, alchemy hubs, sapim cx ray spokes (20/28)...

I'm 205lbs and ride mostly on rolling to flat courses, and I'm a top 25% age grouper for medium size triathlons. I'm looking for a wheelset I can train and race on that is low maintenance (or easy to service) for under $1k. I'm not interested in the carbon wheels currently (I'll probably buy a set of zipps in a couple of years when I save some more cash). I put about 15-20k miles on a set of 2005 rol sl28 wheels and the drive side rear hub cracked in two a couple of weeks ago... So, I'm back in the market.

The flo 30 aero data looks pretty compelling, but it seems a bit on the heavy side. So what's better? - a sub 1400g wide rim kinda aerowheelset vs. a 1613 g wheelset with impressive wind tunnel data. The flo's also seem like a bargain at $500 vs a ~$800 custom wheel.

I'm sure a similar post gets made every other month or so, but any advice would be great (and save me from searching till the end of the internet). Thanks,
Jon


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:11 pm 
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I'm probably not too helpful, but I have Pacenti sl23's that I built up and my best friend has Flo 30's. Both wheels are awesome. I'd recommend either set. I don't think you would be unhappy or regret either set.

I guess my deciding factor would be climbing. Sl23's for hills and Flo's for the flats.

What hubs are you looking at? (edit: alchemy.... I can't read sometimes)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:19 am 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
I second that - both seem like good wheels for you.

Flo's you might notice better aero - but then hub quality won't be the same and the rims weigh more so will feel sluggish in comparison.
Pacenti customs have the advantage of weight which may not be a big deal for your mass - but the Alchemy hubs are sweet and you can pick your spokes too. Another advantage - you won't have to wait as long to get these (Flo have a waiting list and sell in batches thus far)

Nobody here will be able to tell you which wheels will be best for you. Go with your gut and get the wheels that will make you want to ride harder and longer on!!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:13 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Tris don't have much climbing and rim weight is not an issue since you don't accellerate often like in a 6 corner crit. But aero is important.
The difference between the two wheel sets is small but the Flo wheels would be slightly more aero and would be the ones to get.

Can you run a rear wheel cover? At $50 or so that will make you more aero.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:19 pm 
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jdb315 wrote:
The flo's also seem like a bargain at $500 vs a ~$800 custom wheel.


You can get a custom set with Alchemys and SL23s for $800?

I 2nd the plastic wheel cover on the rear. It is annoying however to attach and remove if you race a lot. But then, you could just leave it on also.

For the <$1k you mentioned, you could be running a Flo90 on the front and any decent rear wheel with a cover on the back. That would be your fastest race setup and you should have no trouble training on them.

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Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:19 pm 
  • 81.90 € (including 19% VAT)
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