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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:36 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:03 am
Posts: 133
Quick and to the point.

Earlier this year Campagnolo announced and released the new C17 Shamal 2-Way Fit wheel. It is available now via our host Starbike, and not available in the US until the beginning of October. This is an update of the previous Shamal wheelset and widens the internal rim measurement from 15mm to 17mm. (http://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/CampyWo ... _ultra_c17)

On 25 August 2016 Campagnolo issued a release regarding the Shamal Mille wheelset. It stated that the Shamal Mille was being moved over to the C17 platform, so it too is getting the 17mm internal width rim. I don't know about European availability, but it's slated to drop in the US around Thanksgiving (28 November according to QBP). (http://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/CampyWo ... ille_my_17)

Additionally, the Mille will be available in a 2-Way version in the C17 version, an option previously unavailable in the original model. I hadn't previously considered the Mille because of the lack of a 2-Way fit option, but now that it is there, I am definitely considering it.

Now, all things being equal, are there any further differences between these two Shamal wheelsets other than the black rim coating and the braking surface? If so, what are they?

I presently have the regular Shamal in the 2-Way option, but have absolutely zero experience with the Mille. For those who have rode both wheelsets, what are your impressions and which would you choose to ride if you could ride only one?


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Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:36 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:43 am 
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Location: Glasgow, Ky
I can say from personal experience the Mille braking is amazing. Night and day between the standard Shamal braking performance.

-Eddie


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:36 am 
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A friend just got some of the new clincher only (not 2-way fit) Shamal Ultras. They are 17mm internal width and 22.5mm external width. Very nice wheels. He did not want the Mille because he heard/read mixed things about the brake track and pads etc. He let me borrow them for a couple days to check out. Have to say... Roundness, trueness, dish... All absolutely perfect... Like less than 0.2mm (and I'm being conservative) out on any of those parameters. Plus, the tires can be mounted by hand. Try that with 2-way fit rims. The whole road tubeless thing seems to be more of a pain out on the road than it's worth. Dealing with sealant, getting a good seal, then potentially having to put a regular tube in anyway when you flat (what a mess)... I just don't get the appeal.
@Ebruner: have you got any pics of your Milles with some wear on them? Do they get used in the rain?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:08 pm 
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I have had absolutely zero problems mounting Schwalbe Pro One tubeless tires on my Shamal wheels. "Zero problems" as in that I was able to mount them by hand and without levers and I don't consider myself to be exceptionally talented or strong at mounting tires by hand in general. I had a bit more difficulty with the Hutchinson Fusion tires, but nothing that couldn't be solved with a tire lever.

I have enjoyed road tubeless a lot. If Continental made the GP4000S II in a road tubeless variant I'd have no other wants so far as tires are concerned. Sealant isn't a big deal.

I have found that getting a good seal on a UST rim mainly requires using a real UST road tubeless tire and not a "tubeless ready" one. At least in my experience. I tried to use a set of Vittoria Corsa Speed tires on them which are "tubeless ready" and they would lose their seal as soon as the valve core was removed. Same with a set of tubeless ready Maxxis Padrone tires (but not the case for proper road tubeless Padrone tires).

Never had a problem with getting a good seal either using a Bontrager Flash Charger pump. I've considered getting a compressor at the house for a few reasons, among them making installation of tubeless tires easier.

I get not liking road tubeless if you've got another preference, but I'm quite happy with it and I appreciate hearing other people's experiences like Ebruner's as my next wheelset will another set of Campagnolo 2-Way fit wheels. I do have my concerns about the rim coating, so it'll be interesting to hear other's opinions on that as they have seemed to vary on the current Mille. I have fewer concerns about the rim surface eating up brake pads as those are easily replaceable.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:24 pm
Posts: 124
I own the Shamal Mille since they first came out (C15 internal) and own the new Shamal C17. Both are great wheels. Both have great braking surfaces. Mille black surface still looks new. Blue pads are a hassle because they wear 10x quicker than standard campag pads, and you can't use the pads with any other wheels. The new C17 Shamal width rim gives a noticeably softer ride compared to Mille, as Vittoria G+ 25mm tires balloon to 27mm. Mille are a bit lighter. If you MUST have the all-black rim for cosmetic reasons, go for it. If that look isn't important, stick with the new C17 in Shamal Ultra. Also, I avoid 2-Way because of difficulty in mounting tires on the road. Clincher only Shamals are significantly easier to mount tires.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:27 pm 
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Thanks for the tip that it's mainly a cosmetic difference. That's really the information I was looking for. Plus, it helps to know about the brake pad issue with their wear rate. Just one of those things to keep in mind.

I am slightly torn between waiting for the new Mille for a) silly cosmetic looks, and b) better overall braking versus the ability to bet the new Shamal 2-Way now as opposed to in three months. But this at least gives me food for thought.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:49 pm 
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Location: Canada
I don't know about braking differences, but I can tell you that there is no need for more braking performance than you get with the Shamal the way it is.

I love hand-built wheelsets as much as the next guy, but I willingly admit that the Shamal is simply excellent. I have been riding them for a couple of seasons as part of a long-term tubeless test and they have been brilliant.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:24 pm 
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Location: Glasgow, Ky
I have 5 sets of Shamal wheels on various bike, and one is Mille. Mille braked MUCH better in the wet. IMHO they are tops. But I will second what was said earlier about pads, they eat them up fast.


-Eddie


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:52 pm 
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So I guess it makes sense that if you went for the Mille "dark look" that it wouldn't take but a few rides in the rain for that look to be pretty much gone, at least as far as the brake track is concerned? I've heard they eat pads even in the dry (which makes sense and is kind of confirmed in this thread) but I've also heard that when you thrown rain into the mix it mixes with grit from the road and is extremely abrasive (much more than a regular rim), and that would makes sense as well.

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Colnago C60 - PR99
C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:47 pm 
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It seems like you might get better longevity with the Mille rims. I mean, you are trading wearing out brake pads than wearing out brake tracks.

On the other hand, I've only worn through a brake track twice in 35 years of cycling. Usually a wheel meets some other untimely death well before it wears out.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:51 am 
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I would wait for the Milles just for looks, the black brake track looks amazing, specially when you pair it with a set of the ne vittoria Corsas with tan walls


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:05 am 
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how long does the black finish last?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:48 am
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Location: sydney, australia
ChiZ01 wrote:
how long does the black finish last?


my shamal milles are 16 months old and still look like new. i generally don't ride in the rain, but there have been many rides on wet roads.

i do accept that others haven't been so lucky with the finish on their milles...


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:07 am 
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Yes, I've used anodized rims in decent conditions and they stay looking great for a very long time, then a couple of rides in bad conditions and that anodization is gone. No big deal, they still work just fine, but it's probably disappointing to those who buy them for their looks then it's gone after two or three rides in a good rain and gritty roads.

_________________
Colnago C60 - PR99
C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:24 pm
Posts: 124
Calnago wrote:
Yes, I've used anodized rims in decent conditions and they stay looking great for a very long time, then a couple of rides in bad conditions and that anodization is gone. No big deal, they still work just fine, but it's probably disappointing to those who buy them for their looks then it's gone after two or three rides in a good rain and gritty roads.


No, the Mille are better. I've got over a year and a half of hard training miles in all conditions on them, and brake track looks same as new. I've used Archetypes that lose the track color in 2 rides.


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Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:32 pm 


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