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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:39 pm 
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Location: FIN
I'm curious , did anyone Nemesis laced to DT 350/240 on "light" spokes ? I mean something like Dt Rev's front 3x, NDS 3x & DT Comp 3x DS ?

Just have some concern about reliability/ durability (i'm 85kg going slowly down :) ) . Want to buy / build something tubular around 1500-1600g for "everyday" cyclocross … Other option is Miche Cross Tube ( +-1600g , about same € as build on Nemesis+DT350, cheaper than on 240's ).

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:03 pm 
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I'm on WTB freq team i19s which are about 440g each (way over spec weight) running sapim d-light spokes and they're holding up fine. i'm about 90kg at the moment. I've actually just moved them over to my singlespeed mountain bike because i'm pretty satisfied they can take it.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:17 pm 
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The spokes you have picked are fine the hub though is not the best choice in this case.

I have 36H nemesis rim on a rear DA7403 hub which has excellent bracing angles, in fact the best there is really, laced together with sapim laser spokes. The wheel is stiff enough but not super stiff. If you build with a DT Swiss road hub with its poor bracing angles the wheel would not be stiff enough to stay true and put mine out on cobbles in belgium earlier this year.

Instead of using the DT hubs Campagnolo Record with a shimano freehub body if you have too. Nemesis rims (465g) on record hubs with steel shimano body and sapim laser/race spokes or DT's in the pattern you specified 32H woudl weight 1686g. Campagnolo do an alloy freehub for shimano cassettes and that would save 35g. Alloy nipples would save another 45g bring the wheelset down to nearly 1600g.

That what I woudl do. Record hubs or Dura 9000 are the ideal hubs for these rims. Cup and cone good bracing angles and extremely reliable.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:25 am 
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I would throw White Industries T11 hubs in the mix as well.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:42 am 
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That has to be "cheap" wheelset … Miche I can have <400€ , <1600g and I set up limit at this level.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:03 am 
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If you want cheap then use the Miche Primato hubs or the slightly lighter Novatec A171/F172 hubs. Both a relaible hubs with large bearings (miche use a steel axle) and both give good bracing angles although the novatec hub has a slightly better DS bracing angle.

WI T11 are good too but in the case of the nemesis rim record hubs are just made for them.

The problem with trying to buils a sub 1600g wheelset with the nemesis rim is the weight of the rim and the spoke count.

If you build up a Ambrosio chrono rim front 28H and 32H rear nemesis with novatec A171/F172 hubs laced up with sapim laser spoke front and NDS rear sapim race DS rear you would have a 1605g wheelset. If you uses sapim laser spokes all round then weight would drop below 1600g. using aloy nipples would drop to 1535g.

It can be done Novatec hubs in the U.K are are the £60 mark for a pair and weight 390g. DT Swiss 350 hub are the same weight but cost more for a hub that give worse bracing angles.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:26 pm 
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bm0p700f wrote:
WI T11 are good too but in the case of the nemesis rim record hubs are just made for them.


Except that the Record hub has significantly worse bracing angles than the T11s. T11 is 35.8/17 and Record is 36/16.4.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:14 pm 
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It actually 16.8/36.7mm ergott for the record hub. So 0.2 mm worse of the DS and 1 mm better on the NDS.

Bracing angles for T11 hubs on nemesis rims with T11 hubs 5.9/4.3 degrees and with record hubs 6.1/4.2 degrees. Now as the non drive side bracing angle has a bigger impact on lateral stiffness than the DS the record hubs in this build would produce a rear wheel that is a little bit stiffer but I would agree not alot stiffer than on a WI T11. The difference may not even be noticable.

Record hubs are cheaper hense my preference if someone wants/need black and 32H hubs.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:28 pm 
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Stormur you could try finding some of ergot's favourite rims the Mavic GP4's a lot lighter than the nemesis and youl easily build a sub 1600g wheelset with these. Found a pair of used but never braked on 32H rims for £30 of ebay recently. They might be the best rim Mavic ever made.

There is an alex tubular 1.0 410g and available in 28H and 32H drilling. A 28F/32R build with WI T11 hubs would be under 1600g. So

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:15 am 
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If you measured 16.8 that's definitely better. I measured quite a while ago and 16.4mm is pretty bad. The NDS does indeed make a big impact on stiffness, but I've noticed NDS tension also be pretty low. The hub works best in builds where you can get the DS tension up to 120kgf or so. If it's an older rim rim with a max tension of 100kgf I wouldn't build with a Record hub.

You mean these?

Image

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:51 pm 
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I aggree with the tension of 1200N. 16.8mm is also what campagnolo claim the DS spacing is on there documents. Yes those rims. I have a pair of 32H. I assume they can handle 1200N ergott as I would like to build them with record hubs.

An rim with a tension limit of 100kgf is for 6/7 speed hubs only in my view or single speeds.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:16 pm 
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So did you measure any of them to 16.8? The 16.4 is what I measured. I don't trust any manufacturer's numbers.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:33 pm 
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yes I have measured them at 16.8mm. When I measure tension I get what the bracing angles predict. You get lower NDS tension becuase the NDS flange sits about 1mm further out than it does on the T11 hub.

I measure from the centre of the flange to the centre of the hub. I have just remeasured and got measurement between 16.8mm/36.7mm and for the WI T11 hubs 35.8/17 is what I get too.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:52 pm 
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Good to know the Record is a bit better that I initially measured. It's been a while since I've measured/built one.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:05 pm 
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All look nice, but … Having option to buy Miche Cross Tube for <400€ delivered, anything above will be more heavy/ pricey than Miche… . So no point for that .

The purpose is "everyday" CX / gravel wheels, so it doesn't have to be nothing "fancy" , just reasonable in price & weight, being same way reasonably reliable. Miche fulfill these requirements, I believe ( not so much feedback on them in web ) .

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Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:05 pm 


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