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 Post subject: Wheel rebuild
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:44 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:58 pm
Posts: 51
Rebuilding an open mould 24 hole 38mm clincher with new spokes and nipples.

The old spokes are 270mm and 266mm.

The nipples I have taken off are about 17mm total length and 14mm from "neck to end" but will be getting replaced with normal slotted head nipples.

Do I order 14mm or 16mm nipples when ordering spokes the same lengths of the originals?

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 Post subject: Re: Wheel rebuild
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm
Posts: 550
Why not just measure the ERD and calculate the spoke length as usual?

What kind of hubs are they?


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel rebuild
Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:22 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel rebuild
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:46 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 2848
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
The spoke in your wheel will be longer due to the nipples you had. With conventional nipples you will need shorter lengths. Measure erd and work out the lengths required. Erd should be about 569mm. Use nipple washers and 14mm normal nipples.

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 Post subject: Re: Wheel rebuild
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:58 pm
Posts: 51
Hub is Novatec F482SB-SL.

I'll measure the ERD and post back.

Thanks guys


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:59 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:08 am
Posts: 701
That's my favorite nipple design. Sapim and DT make them. The Sapims sell for about 25cents each.


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:07 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:55 pm
Posts: 54
Is the nipple threaded all the way to the top of the flats? If so you'd need shorter spokes. But, at least one brand only threads the part from the head and 10mm down, to make sure that the spoke sits in the spoke head where it helps support a very stressed area. This is a better design, and with this design you'd need standard length spokes regardless of nipple length.
Regarding your question, you should buy nipples which are the same length as your if you disregard the square piece thats stuck onto the head of the nipple.


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:14 am
Posts: 1541
Location: SYD
Christ.... :roll:
Who made the wheel? Why are you rebuilding it? Do you trust the spoke lengths used in the first place? Cause if so those nipples are 14mm nipples..
If not..... Measure the hub calculate the erd using the nipples you'd like to use and run the number.... Wheel building is really very VERY simple trig based engineering nothing more.. Any one that try's to imply it's more that that is full of S%€t.. I Perfer 12mm dt-Swiss hex lock nipples.. They carry a lot of spoke in the nipple head and run like a tradition 14mm nipple.. You build em using a 5.5mm hex drive from behind and you never touch the flats during the building process.. Not cheap but nothing worth while is..... 8)


Also @bm0p700f please don't pull erd numbers out of thin air.... It's embarrassing as a professional wheelbuilder.... It's pretty apparent that many different Chinese rim MFGs use the same molds the difference is the layups and they are very very different factory to factory along with the ERD numbers :noidea:

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 Post subject: Re: Wheel rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:08 am
Posts: 701
lol, where are these rims that have a spoke hole large enough for the hex tool that fits those hex nipples? I have a box of 50 here I've never been able to use!

edit - My Sapim versions of that double square nipple allow 9 turns after necessary length has been achieved before the threads bind. That is 4.5mm. So your ERD could be off by 9mm and it would still work. I wouldn't sweat it.....


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel rebuild
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:36 am 
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm
Posts: 550
I've build all my Farsports wheels with hex nipples and used the the DT Swiss Proline hex nipple wrench. I've also build a trainingwheelset with DT R460 rims with hex nipples and used the wrench. Don't know about other rims. Which ones have you tried, @F45? Would be curious to know about Kinlin rims, since my next wheelset might be with xc279 rims.


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel rebuild
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:50 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:08 am
Posts: 701
Alright, mud on my face. I tried the XR200 and Pacenti SL25 and my Park tool did fit, but it didn't fit into the XR270 or my Light Bicycle rims.


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel rebuild
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:28 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 2848
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Exuse me but if that nipple sugarkane has thread all the the to the top and it should do then the spokes required will be longer than a standard 14mm nipple from sapim with screwdriver flats because it has a shorter head. Also i have seen many nipples of this type where the spoke reaches the top of the head. An example is dt swiss rr411 rim supplied with squorx nipples. Erd is 601mm with these and if you use those nipples spoke length calculated based on that erd are spot on. If you use normal sapim 14mm nipples and you can, the erd is 596mm. I wonder why because the spoke is long enough to reach the top of head.

I am suggesting that the op determines erd with the nipples he intends to build with which is what you should do anyway. I use sapim nipples and all erd's i measure i with these nipples with the spoke sitting in the head where i want it to be when fully tensioned. This is why spoke length calculation is not difficult on that i agree.

So before you tell everyone i know nothing besure i am wrong first.

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 Post subject: Re: Wheel rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:42 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:14 am
Posts: 1541
Location: SYD
I never suggested you don't know what your talking about.. god knows you spend s lot of time on this forum telling every one just how much you do.. I'm not a fan of wheelbuilders who spend hours on forums talking them selves up and giving their options of every thing regardless of if it's relevant or asked for... Let your wheels do the talking dude, it's all that actually matters... :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Wheel rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:15 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:08 am
Posts: 701
I have find bm0p's post highly helpful but have never derived anything useful, that I can recall, from sugarkane's posts.


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 Post subject: Re: Wheel rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:17 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:14 am
Posts: 1541
Location: SYD
That's not surprising F45 I'm not the resident expert :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Wheel rebuild
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:17 am 


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