quick review for a crit wheel set I wanted to build: cheap, deep carbon, tubeless, U-shaped to handle cross winds a little better, decent braking.
I ordered the 60 x 25mm U shaped tubeless rims from far sports via their aliexpress page. Communication was good. It took just a bit under two weeks to get the rims. They came supplied with Swisstop black carbon specific pads. I took them to my LBS and had them built around a pair of White Industries hubs I had on a wheel set I didn't use much. Sapim CX-Rays, 20/24. The very good wheel builder at the shop said he felt that they built up very well with only minimal irregularities in the spoke beds as judged by slight tension differences as he was bringing the tension up. I mounted the S-works 26mm tubeless tires with Stans tape and sealant. The tire sidewall is flush with the brake track.
These are not light wheels, sorry I did not weigh them but the 17-1800 range others have mentioned sounds about right.
The ride quality with 26mm tubeless S-Works tires at about 72/85 psi is magic carpet levels. Cornering on that combo is out of this world -- and I'm coming from 25mm GP4k's. Grippy, no drama, just lean the bike into the turn and carve it. Wonderfully confidence inspiring.
The wheels do not climb that well, you can definitely feel the mass on shorter sharper climbs. Anything that involves a steady speed is fantastic. They are fast as judged by multiple downhill PR's set on these things without trying at all. Sorry, no wind tunnel report.
I took them down a 50mph downhill that I do quite often. This descent has very common swirling crosswinds. I normally ride Reynolds Attacks (29mm deep x 24.7mm wide externally). The 60mm U shaped rims handled the cross winds better than the 29mm Reynolds! I felt very minor tugs on the front wheel with the 60mm that normally would have felt far more pronounced. This same pattern was repeated through multiple different cross winds on recent rides.
I have only ridden these in the dry so far but braking is quite good with Reynolds blue pads. Maybe not at the level of an alloy rim using Shimano black pads, but then again, what is at that level?
All in, the rims, nips, spokes, tires (with team discount), tape sealant, brake pads and labor cost me $630 for a top notch local build. Factor in the price of your own hub choice....
Aero rims? check. Grippy, wide, tubeless tires? check. Good braking? check. Cheap enough that if I taco the wheel set, I won't cry about it? check. Bam, I just built a crit wheel set!
Open mold wide profile carbon wheels
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I've been looking at getting some carbon rims and am/was interested in Light-Bicycle. I've found threads (been lurking, but just registered) on here and on Pinkbike where people had positive experiences, both with product and with customer service. However, on this thread the feeling seems to be quite the opposite. They've been responsive to me (quick replies during the hours when it's daytime in China) - is the consensus that they're not good? Others on here mention Farsports, but their rider limits are all 104 kg or less... I'm exactly 104kg (which is so much more pleasant to write than 230 lbs) and I'm doing all I can to reinforce the "Clydesdale" stereotype. Carbon-Cycle (If I'm getting the name right) concerns me as I'm not sure about buying wheels off ebay - I definitely like the idea of having Paypal as a source of complaint resolution. Can anyone recommend a "reputable" (yeah, I know...) wheel maker that can handle a fattie? I'm looking for 55-65mm depth and I ride hilly (but no big climbs or descents) terrain and don't race in any capacity.
I don't think there's a consensus about anything in these threads 
There are anecdotes,but i don't think we know what % of buyers have problems, etc. I have been very happy with LB, but I use their rims in disc-brake application. (I personally wouldn't use any of these clinchers in rim-brake application.). But it sounds like there have been some pretty serious QC issues that others have experienced recently. I hope that LB was at least good about warrantying their work.
It's definitely a gamble with any of these vendors. There is little accountability; [apparently] corners get cut.
I would recommend that if you are a Clydesdale that you have the wheels built by a reputable builder locally. (My experience with Farsports was that the wheels were not sufficiently tensioned.) And you probably want a 28/32 build on solid hubs. Not super light ED hubs, etc.
There are anecdotes,but i don't think we know what % of buyers have problems, etc. I have been very happy with LB, but I use their rims in disc-brake application. (I personally wouldn't use any of these clinchers in rim-brake application.). But it sounds like there have been some pretty serious QC issues that others have experienced recently. I hope that LB was at least good about warrantying their work.It's definitely a gamble with any of these vendors. There is little accountability; [apparently] corners get cut.
I would recommend that if you are a Clydesdale that you have the wheels built by a reputable builder locally. (My experience with Farsports was that the wheels were not sufficiently tensioned.) And you probably want a 28/32 build on solid hubs. Not super light ED hubs, etc.
So the conversation with LB continues... They say they can do a 28-spoke wheel, but it would be with Powerway R13 or R36 hubs. Never heard of them before... They also say they have a 65mm rim that they "will release soon". I was thinking of a 24-spoke front and a 28-poke rear with either 55mm in front and 65mm out back, 55mm all around, or 65mm all around.
I was looking at Boyd wheels, but, well, I can swing ~$700 more easily than I can swing ~$1600 where the missus is concerned... Doesn't Boyd roll Asian rims too? Who's making his hubs?
I was looking at Boyd wheels, but, well, I can swing ~$700 more easily than I can swing ~$1600 where the missus is concerned... Doesn't Boyd roll Asian rims too? Who's making his hubs?
Did LB provide any details about the new 65mm rims? Are they releasing anything deeper too? Until now they have only had up to 55mm in their wide profile rims.
You might want to ask if a 32 spoke rear wheel will give you any other hub choices.
Is it very windy where you live? @85kg I find the RRU55C02 very easy to handle in all but the gustiest of winds and even then it's not that bad. I had been thinking of getting 45mm for the front, I am very glad that I got 55mm for both. I think you should get at least 55mm for the front and at least 65mm for the rear.
Ask if you even need to have more than 24 spokes on a 65mm rear wheel.
Another American choice is November Bicycles who use White Industries hubs for Boyd like prices.
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You might want to ask if a 32 spoke rear wheel will give you any other hub choices.
Is it very windy where you live? @85kg I find the RRU55C02 very easy to handle in all but the gustiest of winds and even then it's not that bad. I had been thinking of getting 45mm for the front, I am very glad that I got 55mm for both. I think you should get at least 55mm for the front and at least 65mm for the rear.
Ask if you even need to have more than 24 spokes on a 65mm rear wheel.
Another American choice is November Bicycles who use White Industries hubs for Boyd like prices.
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@dmulligan, their email is below. I'll try to include the details they provided, but posting pics/files in forums is my kryptonite (and I'm new, so I might not be able to do so).
Wouldn't 32 pokes be a bit... much? I mean, I get it, I'm more football (American football) player than cyclist when it comes to body-type, but...
I'm in Northern Virginia and I would say, on balance, it's really not that windy. The only time I really feel the wind is if I'm right at the coast or bicycling in the Outer Banks during vacation. Either way, my issue with the wind is never that it's impacting my wheels, but that it's hitting my body - ~46-inch chest into a strong headwind sucks.
I'll definitely look into November bicycles.
In the end, I'm a fair-weather cyclist and I don't ever get to put on the miles I want (2 kids under 5 and at least 2 hours of commuting each day to/from work), so I don't think I'll ever "wear out" any given component. I do, however, find that I'm allergic to catastrophic equipment failures at 20+ mph. These would be my "everyday" wheels, but by "everyday", I mean "weekends when the weather is good and I can get away from the kids" - I would continue using my current alloy wheels for indoor trainer sessions.
Here's the email from LB:
This is Carolin from Light-Bicycle. Thanks for your inquiry.
There are 55mm depth and 65mm depth U shape clincher rim, no 60mm. The 65mm depth rim is the newest rim and we will release this rim soon. Please find the attached cross-section drawing of the rims.
RRU55C02: $178/pcs, 515+/-15g
RRU65C02: around $186/pcs
Wouldn't 32 pokes be a bit... much? I mean, I get it, I'm more football (American football) player than cyclist when it comes to body-type, but...
I'm in Northern Virginia and I would say, on balance, it's really not that windy. The only time I really feel the wind is if I'm right at the coast or bicycling in the Outer Banks during vacation. Either way, my issue with the wind is never that it's impacting my wheels, but that it's hitting my body - ~46-inch chest into a strong headwind sucks.
I'll definitely look into November bicycles.
In the end, I'm a fair-weather cyclist and I don't ever get to put on the miles I want (2 kids under 5 and at least 2 hours of commuting each day to/from work), so I don't think I'll ever "wear out" any given component. I do, however, find that I'm allergic to catastrophic equipment failures at 20+ mph. These would be my "everyday" wheels, but by "everyday", I mean "weekends when the weather is good and I can get away from the kids" - I would continue using my current alloy wheels for indoor trainer sessions.
Here's the email from LB:
This is Carolin from Light-Bicycle. Thanks for your inquiry.
There are 55mm depth and 65mm depth U shape clincher rim, no 60mm. The 65mm depth rim is the newest rim and we will release this rim soon. Please find the attached cross-section drawing of the rims.
RRU55C02: $178/pcs, 515+/-15g
RRU65C02: around $186/pcs
Ok, so, they sent me a cross-section diagram with all the measurements, but I don't know how to post it here. It's a general U shape with the widest point (28.09mm) occurring at the mid-point, 25.85mm width at the brake track, and 18.35 inner width and a BSD of 622mm
Interesting, they are still a little wider than RRU55C02.
I too ride on hilly terrain, though I do have some biggish climbs and decents and I'm still happy with 55mm depth. Had 65 been available I might have chosen 55f+65r.
I was only suggesting finding out about 32 spokes to see what hub choices you have with them. I'm not an expert but weight and esthetics are the only downside to more spokes. 4 spokes are about 20 grams I think.
D
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I too ride on hilly terrain, though I do have some biggish climbs and decents and I'm still happy with 55mm depth. Had 65 been available I might have chosen 55f+65r.
I was only suggesting finding out about 32 spokes to see what hub choices you have with them. I'm not an expert but weight and esthetics are the only downside to more spokes. 4 spokes are about 20 grams I think.
D
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@dmulligan, I'll have to ask once China wakes up again. They've been quick with responses...
Yeah, I'm thinking 55/65 with 24/28 spokes... I don't really know powerway, but it's not like I know bitex or novatech either. I will say that, after looking at FLO and November, and even Boyd, some of these hubs are looking eerily similar...
I'm currently waiting for a price quote on the 55/65 combo (I sent the request after quitin' time in Xianmen).
Unfortunately, I don't think Light-Bicycle does a 4th of July sale or gives military discounts to US military.
Yeah, I'm thinking 55/65 with 24/28 spokes... I don't really know powerway, but it's not like I know bitex or novatech either. I will say that, after looking at FLO and November, and even Boyd, some of these hubs are looking eerily similar...
I'm currently waiting for a price quote on the 55/65 combo (I sent the request after quitin' time in Xianmen).
Unfortunately, I don't think Light-Bicycle does a 4th of July sale or gives military discounts to US military.
If you are looking for performance, you'll want a rim that has been wind-tunnel tested. November Rail or something from Flo is most likely to actually improve performance. If you are more interested in aesthetics or ride feel (as I am) then LB or Farsports seem like good options. Just because a rim is deep doesn't mean it'll actually be any faster than a much shallower rim that has been designed for aerodynamics.
(November uses WI hubs and recently is offering a Pacenti SL23 wheelset with Bitex hubs for the first time. They used to offer Novatec hubs too. I haven't kept track of Boyd or Williams.)
I haven't used Power way hubs, but I have used Novatec and Bitex. I would be leery of the lighter-weight road hubs for your weight. E.g. I had ED hubs on my Farsports wheels and the pawls would ping when it was under serious load (esp going around a corner on a steep hill). I weigh 80kg. So you want better/beefier hubs than are going to be the typical spec (i.e. as light as possible) on these wheelsets.
I have a set of 50mm rims with 24/24 (disc-brake) spokes that I just built. I can feel these flex on sprints or climbs. I had a set of LB U45 rims laced 28/28 that were stiffer laterally. But take a look at some of the guidelines from other wheel builders there.
My biggest concern would be brake track delamination. Even though NoVA doesn't have huge descents, there is plenty of opportunity around here to destroy carbon clinchers, especially with a heavier rider. A buddy delaminated his first-generation November wheels out in Garrett County. That is some scary sh*t. I would pay the extra $ for a tested rim like Nov Rail or even a big-name-brand rim to avoid a trip to the hospital. If you do go Chinese carbon make sure you are getting a brake track rated for high temperatures. And then figure out which brake pads will actually make the things stop My high-temp Farsports rims were terrifying in that regard (with the blue pads they supplied).
(November uses WI hubs and recently is offering a Pacenti SL23 wheelset with Bitex hubs for the first time. They used to offer Novatec hubs too. I haven't kept track of Boyd or Williams.)
I haven't used Power way hubs, but I have used Novatec and Bitex. I would be leery of the lighter-weight road hubs for your weight. E.g. I had ED hubs on my Farsports wheels and the pawls would ping when it was under serious load (esp going around a corner on a steep hill). I weigh 80kg. So you want better/beefier hubs than are going to be the typical spec (i.e. as light as possible) on these wheelsets.
I have a set of 50mm rims with 24/24 (disc-brake) spokes that I just built. I can feel these flex on sprints or climbs. I had a set of LB U45 rims laced 28/28 that were stiffer laterally. But take a look at some of the guidelines from other wheel builders there.
My biggest concern would be brake track delamination. Even though NoVA doesn't have huge descents, there is plenty of opportunity around here to destroy carbon clinchers, especially with a heavier rider. A buddy delaminated his first-generation November wheels out in Garrett County. That is some scary sh*t. I would pay the extra $ for a tested rim like Nov Rail or even a big-name-brand rim to avoid a trip to the hospital. If you do go Chinese carbon make sure you are getting a brake track rated for high temperatures. And then figure out which brake pads will actually make the things stop
My high-temp Farsports rims were terrifying in that regard (with the blue pads they supplied).@pushstart, Thank you for the advice. I would say I'm looking for performance, but I'm trying to be realistic. I'm no Cavendish/Froome/Sagan. I know that, for the most part, I'm not pushing the performance envelope of my equipment - I am the limiting factor here. However, I'm aware that, well, to be honest, having better kit makes you feel better, which makes you want to ride more, etc. I'm overstating the importance of that part, I think, but it all factors in. So, I'm ok with getting chinese wheels from the places that Boyd/November/et. al. get theirs (I don't know if LB is where they get them, but they're down the street, if nothing else) and not paying the extra $1000 for the sticker (and the "superior American craftsmanship"). Not a knock on Boyd/November/et. al., but budgets are budgets. If the powers that be allowed me to drop $1500+, believe me I would. We deal with the resources we have...
I'm currently on ~30mm (if I remember correctly) Kinlin alloy rims, 28 spokes front and rear, laced to Velocity race hubs. They've been fine, but... well, carbon = cool. Judge if you must.
My issue with November is that, if I stop at starbucks for a frappucino, I exceed their weight limit. That's cool, except they'll void the warranty. As for FLO, I'd be happy to get one of their sets for ~$1200, but I don't want/can't get into their sales method (bum rush the website to get one of a limited number of sets). Living in the DC area, I'm burned out on that tactic (minibar and the like, if you are familiar with the area and know what I mean). I can understand why that's the method they chose/are forced to operate under, it's just not for me. Also, looking into how they operate on forums has me a little put off. Again, no judgement, just not something I'm down for right now.
Track delamination, yeah... that's where I see this being a gamble. I'm not climbing Skyline Drive with these things (heck, I did it once, never again, if I can avoid it), but I'm aware of the risk. FWIW, LB warranty reports (outside of a couple posts in this thread) seem spot on. And their communication with me so far has been top notch for responsiveness. Delamination/structural issues is just something I'll have to look out for, I guess. As for the scary bit, I have health insurance, so, Obama's got me covered there. As I learned some time ago, if I get hurt, it's a $25 co-pay; if I break the bike, it's $XXXX... ride the crash in, protect the bike. This is going to be an adventure.
Now to secure funding...
I'm currently on ~30mm (if I remember correctly) Kinlin alloy rims, 28 spokes front and rear, laced to Velocity race hubs. They've been fine, but... well, carbon = cool. Judge if you must.
My issue with November is that, if I stop at starbucks for a frappucino, I exceed their weight limit. That's cool, except they'll void the warranty. As for FLO, I'd be happy to get one of their sets for ~$1200, but I don't want/can't get into their sales method (bum rush the website to get one of a limited number of sets). Living in the DC area, I'm burned out on that tactic (minibar and the like, if you are familiar with the area and know what I mean). I can understand why that's the method they chose/are forced to operate under, it's just not for me. Also, looking into how they operate on forums has me a little put off. Again, no judgement, just not something I'm down for right now.
Track delamination, yeah... that's where I see this being a gamble. I'm not climbing Skyline Drive with these things (heck, I did it once, never again, if I can avoid it), but I'm aware of the risk. FWIW, LB warranty reports (outside of a couple posts in this thread) seem spot on. And their communication with me so far has been top notch for responsiveness. Delamination/structural issues is just something I'll have to look out for, I guess. As for the scary bit, I have health insurance, so, Obama's got me covered there. As I learned some time ago, if I get hurt, it's a $25 co-pay; if I break the bike, it's $XXXX... ride the crash in, protect the bike. This is going to be an adventure.
Now to secure funding...
LB says:
The price for wheelset with following specs is USD596/pair.
- Rims: front RRU55C02, UD, matte, 24H/rear RRU65C02, UD matte, 28H, with brake surface, no decal
- Hubs: black Powerway R13 hubs, shimano 11S
- Spokes: black pillar psr x-tra 1420 aero spokes
- Nipples: black brass
If it is with Powerway R36 hubs, the price will be USD611/pair. R36 hubs are lighter and better.
--------------------
So, I want the Sapim CX-Ray and I think the R36 hubs look, well... they're not my cup o' tea. Also, I'm inclined to go J-bend over straight pull, call me old-fashioned. Also, the powerway website shows R36 actually being ~5 gram heavier across front and back, but Nancy (the person I'm conversing with) seems like a hard-charger, so I won't argue that point. I asked her about the 32-spoke and a slew of other things, but it's 12:43PM in China, so I think they're out for lunch as opposed to dealing with Americans with too many questions...
The price for wheelset with following specs is USD596/pair.
- Rims: front RRU55C02, UD, matte, 24H/rear RRU65C02, UD matte, 28H, with brake surface, no decal
- Hubs: black Powerway R13 hubs, shimano 11S
- Spokes: black pillar psr x-tra 1420 aero spokes
- Nipples: black brass
If it is with Powerway R36 hubs, the price will be USD611/pair. R36 hubs are lighter and better.
--------------------
So, I want the Sapim CX-Ray and I think the R36 hubs look, well... they're not my cup o' tea. Also, I'm inclined to go J-bend over straight pull, call me old-fashioned. Also, the powerway website shows R36 actually being ~5 gram heavier across front and back, but Nancy (the person I'm conversing with) seems like a hard-charger, so I won't argue that point. I asked her about the 32-spoke and a slew of other things, but it's 12:43PM in China, so I think they're out for lunch as opposed to dealing with Americans with too many questions...
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Okay, I'm spamming at this point, but LB just replied, so sorry:
The price for wheelset with following specs is USD652/pair.
- Rims: front RRU55C02, UD, matte, 24H/rear RRU65C02, UD matte, 28H, with brake surface, no decal
- Hubs: black Powerway R13 hubs, shimano 11S
- Spokes: black Sapim CX-Ray aero spokes
- Nipples: black brass
The delivery cost is USD78. There is QR skewers included, but no valve stems/rim tape.
The manufacturing takes around 20 days for manufacturing. It is strong enough for 130KG riding. It is really strong wheelset, it is deep and stiff.
If you like to go for 32H, it is Powerway R13 hubs also, it will make the wheelset price USD21 due to more spokes/nipples added.
----------------------
That about dries me up on questions and I like the build she describes above. If adding 4 spokes just adds $21, I'll stick with 28.
Now to go start a GoFundMe...
Also, "deep and stiff"... are we still doing "phrasing"?
The price for wheelset with following specs is USD652/pair.
- Rims: front RRU55C02, UD, matte, 24H/rear RRU65C02, UD matte, 28H, with brake surface, no decal
- Hubs: black Powerway R13 hubs, shimano 11S
- Spokes: black Sapim CX-Ray aero spokes
- Nipples: black brass
The delivery cost is USD78. There is QR skewers included, but no valve stems/rim tape.
The manufacturing takes around 20 days for manufacturing. It is strong enough for 130KG riding. It is really strong wheelset, it is deep and stiff.
If you like to go for 32H, it is Powerway R13 hubs also, it will make the wheelset price USD21 due to more spokes/nipples added.
----------------------
That about dries me up on questions and I like the build she describes above. If adding 4 spokes just adds $21, I'll stick with 28.
Now to go start a GoFundMe...
Also, "deep and stiff"... are we still doing "phrasing"?
