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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:27 pm
Posts: 2
tharmor wrote:
wjclint wrote:
PRODUCTS ORDERED AND TIME TO RECEIPT

Wheelset: 40mm clincher wheelset with new U/Aero shape, 20/24 spoke count, UD Matte Finish, Novatec Hubs F482s and F291s,CN 424 spokes, shipped to the USA. Total to the door price was $522.00


Epic first post!! Thanks for the ride report.

Did you get hit with an import charge at customs?



No custom charge or hold up in customs at all.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:06 pm
Posts: 55
Nice review and that is a really nice ride you got there. I am building a FM066SL as well same finish in UD Matte.

I wasted so much time looking at diagrams and build options on these wheels. Choosing your own spec and all that is really cool but its almost too much to choose from. In some ways I think I chose the Light-Bicycle 45mm wheels just to end it!

Now I am deciding if I really want to go full tubeless right off the bat or go with clinchers on my first tire choice. Choices!


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Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:12 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7412
Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
I know this is reaching back a bit, as the conversation as recently been centered around HongFu vs. DengFu vs. November (not open mould) vs. Light-Bicycle...
but... seeing as how the first few pages of this thread DID center around Xiamen FarSports,

Has anyone ordered the FarSports' new shapes? Have they started delivery? Has anyone spotted their new aero-shaped wheels showing up on other forums or sites?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:56 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:23 pm
Posts: 22
Also, has anyone ordered a custom drilled rear rim to lace to a 32 spoke powertap? I'm getting tempted, especially if someone comes out with a "good" 80-90mm wide rim. I'm well aware I'm not following weight-weenie guidelines at that point. :) I'm a cheap-weenie and it's a lot easier to get one's hands on wired 32 spoke ptap hubs than 28/24 spoke hubs.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:08 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:21 am
Posts: 8
@derf head to Powertap.com and check out the new price on the G3 rear hub. $789.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:47 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:10 am
Posts: 1845
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Are any of these companies located near or in Shanghai?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:36 am
Posts: 6
Also,is there anyone try out Yoeleo new u sharp 23mm wide?
I saw quite good review regarding Yoeleo at roadbikereview.
Is u shape 25mm more aero than u shape 23mm wide?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:06 pm
Posts: 55
@velo1990

Yoeleo seems to be using the same shape as Far-Sports 25mm wide rim which has been spoken about already. You will find that rim profile offered by quite a few of the Chinese wheel builders. They also have the same 23mm wide rim. The more you search the more you will see these guys all have the same rims. The difference is price, the build you get, and if they have an established reputation in the west. I ordered my handlebar from Yoeleo.

Which one is more aero.....who knows until somebody tests them. I'd go with the 25mm wide cause that is what the trend is currently and the shape kind of copies the pre-firecrest zipp design aka hybrid-toroidal. the 23mm seems to just have kind of a general curved shape rather than a V.

I chose the Light-Bicycle 45mm rim cause that is a very close copy of a proven race winning design in the Zipp Firecrest 303. Nobody else seems to have it and thats exactly what i was looking for....

http://www.light-bicycle.com/U-shaped-R ... tible.html

For years all these aero wheel designs were focused on a traditional NACA areo profile focusing on the leading edge of the wheel..aka where it breaks the air. Sure thats better than nothing but what about the trailing edge of the wheel? Its actually the opposite shape that you really want, its a reverse NACA profile. Zipp and Hed started to focus on this and since you can't change the shape of the tire to influence the trailing edge you have to try to manipulate the air flow and pressure by using interesting rim shapes. This is where we got the Hed and Zipp hybrid-toriodal shapes. This is why the Zipp Firecrest wheels are fatter at the spoke nipple rather than at the tire bed. They also take into account that the trailing edge of the front half of the wheel is actually the spokes so there is really not much of a need for the NACA profile. Its all about getting the air to come off the trailing edge of the tire as smooth and efficiently as possible. Its sort of a Kamtail or virtual airfoil effect. This is why Firecrest is so revolutionary and everyone is copying them.

Hope this helps.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:09 pm 
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Posts: 55
Here is the very opinionated short version from an aero standpoint:

1 - 45mm Light-Bicycle - Firecrest copy and better than all the rest
2a - November Rail - falls in these 3 somewhere. looks almost identical to 25mm hybrid-toroidal
2b - 25mm hybrid-toroidal - better than the 23mm curve and V... aka pre-firecrest
2c - 27mm Dengfu - Bontrager copy, maybe better than the hybrid-toroidal. honestly don't know, maybe worse
5 - curve shape 23mm - better than the V, maybe
6 - V shape - better than box rims

Feel free to disagree....other than staying at a Holiday Inn once, I'm no expert.

JMO


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:22 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:02 am
Posts: 40
sspring wrote:
Here is the very opinionated short version from an aero standpoint:

1 - 45mm Light-Bicycle - Firecrest copy and better than all the rest
2a - November Rail - falls in these 3 somewhere. looks almost identical to 25mm hybrid-toroidal
2b - 25mm hybrid-toroidal - better than the 23mm curve and V... aka pre-firecrest
2c - 27mm Dengfu - Bontrager copy, maybe better than the hybrid-toroidal. honestly don't know, maybe worse



I'm going to order either of the bolded ones in the next day. A general question on these Chinese copy wheels, would the basalt brake track be an influencing factor i.e. the Dengfu has basalt brake track and the Light-Bicycle does not, does it really matter? And if so, how much? My first choice is the Light-Bicycle rim.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:20 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:19 am
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sspring wrote:
Here is the very opinionated short version from an aero standpoint:

1 - 45mm Light-Bicycle - Firecrest copy and better than all the rest
2a - November Rail - falls in these 3 somewhere. looks almost identical to 25mm hybrid-toroidal
2b - 25mm hybrid-toroidal - better than the 23mm curve and V... aka pre-firecrest
2c - 27mm Dengfu - Bontrager copy, maybe better than the hybrid-toroidal. honestly don't know, maybe worse
5 - curve shape 23mm - better than the V, maybe
6 - V shape - better than box rims

Feel free to disagree....other than staying at a Holiday Inn once, I'm no expert.

JMO


If we go to see the description of Aeolus D3 rims on the Bontrager website, we can see that (in their opinion) D3 shape is better than the Firecrest profile... But as we know...these are the market "games"...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:42 am
Posts: 47
SSpring -

I don't know if you're aware of it but we tested our Rail wheels versus a 404 in the A2 wind tunnel. The Rail was slightly faster than a 404 at low wing angles, and slightly slower at wider wind angles. If you average the difference across all angles from 0 to 20 degrees, the 404 is very slightly faster. We're fine with that as the 404 is over 10% deeper and aerodynamics are just part of the whole package. For example, in addition to a wider internal width, we have more spokes. In fact our wind tunnel wheel had 24 spokes, which is an aerodynamic detriment to the 20 holes our front wheels are built with. Enough to erase the very small gap to a 404? We'll find out on our next round of tests.

In any case, for your hierarchy to hold up, the Light Bicycle 45 would have to be demonstrably faster than a 303. The difference between a 303 and a 404 are well documented. Since, unlike most other tests, we actually tested against a relevant benchmark wheel instead of the slowest wheel we could possibly find, we have the benefit of knowing that the difference between a Rail and a 404 is much less than the difference between a 303 and a 404. Is it really plausible that the rim you think is fastest actually improves so much upon the rim it copies?

Subjectively, as the Rail's designer, the Rail looks absolutely nothing like a hybrid-toroidal shape. It's far from conclusive that Zipp's shapes are superior. Bontrager shapes are very good, test very well (their test protocol provides better comparisons than what any other major brand has done), and differ from Zipp's in similar ways as ours does.

You have obviously spent some time reading about rim design which is commendable, but there is much more than what you've posted. One of the most important lessons in rim designs and aerodynamics in general is that what very highly trained people think 'ought' to work often doesn't. This is why guesses and opinions about what is faster than something else don't work. Until you test, you don't know. It's that simple.

Dave

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:12 pm 
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Posts: 47
ItalianJob -

The very nice thing that Bontrager did was to test EVERY wheel they reference in the same tunnel with the same protocol in one session. That is a very nice way of doing it and elevates their statement from "our opinion is" to "our testing shows". These two statements are worlds apart in their value. I'm not a fan of Trek, Inc but the Bontrager D3 white paper is excellent.

Dave

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:45 pm 
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Dave -
My observation did not want to be contentious, but rather, it was an affirmation about very strict tests carried out by Bontrager.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:09 pm
Posts: 718
NovemberDave wrote:
ItalianJob -

The very nice thing that Bontrager did was to test EVERY wheel they reference in the same tunnel with the same protocol in one session. That is a very nice way of doing it and elevates their statement from "our opinion is" to "our testing shows". These two statements are worlds apart in their value. I'm not a fan of Trek, Inc but the Bontrager D3 white paper is excellent.

Dave



Exactly, here is the link to the paper they produced.


http://media.bontrager.com/images/featu ... wheels.pdf


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Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:11 pm 


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