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djconnel
 Post subject: Fuji SL/1
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:33 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 6959
Location: San Francisco, CA
Here's the data on my Fuji SL/1 (size small). The real weight saver was the Mt Washington wheels I got from Nico. The things are sicko light. Other than that, pretty standard...

I really like the Fuji SL/1. It ranked poorly when Tour magazine tested it, 41st out of 41 frames tested, but at least in my size it descends super-smoothly and climbs great. It's a slow sprinter, though. Just kidding -- my legs are to blame for that :).

Total weight = 11.82 lb, 5.36 kg. It was a year wait for the Lightning crank, but it was worth the wait. At some point when Quarq supports it I expect to install a Quarq power meter on it. For now I use my heavy Powertap wheel in training.

Alternate race wheels are Reynolds MV-32T with Veloflex Carbon tubulars. These are better all-around wheels and tires than the built-for-climbing Mt Washingtons. But for light weight and low rolling resistance at anywhere near the price, I can't see how you can beat the Mt Washingtons right now.

Improvements? I suppose I should cut down the seapost a bit (too much in the frame right now). A lighter saddle? I don't know that I want to give up the padding on the SLR. The stem is just a Performance, but it's hard to find much that's actually lighter. And I don't want wider handlebars.

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photo includes heavier bottle cage, Frog LED lights, and dinosaur
Code:
installed_component      weighed notes                apparatus
frame                    860     Fuji_SL/1            ultimate
seat_clamp               20      standard             ultimate
cage_bolts               10      standard_Al          ultimate
fork_(uncut)             380     standard             ultimate
fork_(removed_section)   -36.5   standard             Stanford
expander_plug_+_cap      13.7    headset_(extralight) Scout
headset_bearings_(2)     43.5    headset              Stanford
upper_cover              17.4    headset              Stanford
compression_ring         5.3     headset              Stanford
SRAM_Red_front_deralleur 69.9    -                    Stanford
SRAM_Red_rear_derailleur 145.4   -                    Scout
SRAM_Red_cassette        153.8   -                    Scout
quick_releases           45.7    KCNC                 Scout
pedals                   154.9   Speedplay_X/1        Scout
Lightning_Crank_+_BB     580.8   170mm_110mm_BCD      Scout
handlebars               231.1   Ritchey_Pro_38_cm    Scout
handlebar_tape           38      Cateye_cotton        Scout
handlebar_plugs          5.1     misc                 Scout
stem                     125.1   Performance_Forte    Scout
chain_(114_links)        257.7   SRAM_Red             Scout
chain_removed_links      -17     SRAM_Red             Scout
shifter_(front)          157     SRAM_Red             Scout
shifter_(rear)           160     SRAM_Red             Scout
saddle                   146     SLR                  Scout
cables_+_housings        270     Gore_Ride-on         Scout
clipped_housings         -52     Gore_Ride-on
clipped_cables           -18.8   Gore_Ride-on
brakes                   197     Zero_Gravity         weight_weenies
bottle_cage              30      Performance_Forte    Scout
Seatpost                 190.3   Thomson_Masterpiece  Scout
Mt_Washington_wheels     776     -                    reported_by_manufacturer
Veloflex_Record_tire     183.2   -                    Scout
Veloflex_Record_tire     191.8   -                    Scout
glue                     30      -                    estimated
total_(calculated)       5364.4  -                    calculated
total_(lbm_calculated)   11.82   -                    calculated
total_(measured)         5360    -                    ultimate
total_(lbm_measured)     11.82   -                    ultimate

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Fuji SL/1
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Raxel
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:41 pm
Posts: 1039
A nice WW build with truly WW wheelset and crankset. And you can shed even more from seatposts, handlebars, stem, etc....
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Powerful Pete
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:00 am 
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Posts: 3753
Location: Little Rock, AR
Good looking ride. Tell me more about the wheels.

And I am sure you could save a ton of weight if you leave the dinosaur at home! :)

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djconnel
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 6959
Location: San Francisco, CA
The wheels are just sicko light. The cardboard box they came in was heavier! They seem well built, too. The Extralight hubs take a bit more maintanance than, say, Shimano, but that's a price to be paid for such weight-optimized stuff. They seem really smooth, with Enduro bearings. In any case, these aren't day-to-day wheels, obviously, so the hubs don't need to be super-durable.

The Veloflex Records are narrower than I prefer for all-around use: only 20 mm. I like having a bit more beef in my tires for potholes, etc. They're especially sketchy if I pump them up: the first time I rode them I used 150 psi, as a test. Good for hillclimbs, bad for handling.

The only downer on the wheels, really, is cross-winds. The best I can figure, the ridge of the triangle shape of the rim creates a bit of a sail effect, and the rim + tire is so light it doesn't have much angular momentum to create a "gyroscopic" effect, so the wind can easily blow it around. Part of this is since I'm fairly light @ 55 kg. It's really a psychological thing, but caused me to be too cautious descending. A bigger rider might well not have a problem. Edge is coming out with a new version, though, the 1.25, which you might want to wait for.

Still, I got the wheels for climbing, and for that they're great. I want to practice more with them on descents, to get a better feel for them there. But in any case for road racing I'd prefer the superior aerodynamics of the Reynolds MV-32T, with the bigger rubber of the Veloflex Carbon tubulars.

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Fuji SL/1
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Last edited by djconnel on Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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cryoplasm
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:20 pm
Posts: 852
That dinosaur in the saddle is a good euphemism.
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Juanmoretime
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:44 pm 
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Posts: 6187
Location: Urbana, Illinois
Doug, very nice. Its really a great weight and there is more that can be cut. I know you don't care for carbon bars but bars, stem and fork is another area you could go lighter and not compromise reliability.

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TheBugMan
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:53 pm 
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That is a cool looking weenie bike for sure.

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durkonion
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:30 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:17 am
Posts: 188
What size is the frame?
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djconnel
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:01 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 6959
Location: San Francisco, CA
First, thanks for the comments!

The frame is Fuji SL/1 size "small". The geometry chart is here. In particular, I like the relatively steep 74.5 degree seat tube angle. I wasn't initially so happy about the long trail due to the relaxed 71-degree head tube angle. You can get back trail with a large-rake fork, for example like the 3TTT Cervelo uses on the small RS, but the fork on the Fuji has a moderate 45mm rake. But I quickly developed a liking for the stability of the handling. It really holds a line in corners while descending, which I like. It just requires a little bit of an active countersteer to get it into that line. Once I got the hang of it, my descending notably improved. I'm not a "fast-twitch" brain cell sort of guy, so I like things to be predictable, and this bike is.

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timsterc
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:23 am 
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Location: Moss Beach
Great job Dan. It really has turned-out nice.

Can I borrow your wheels for the LowKey Hill Climb Series ???

Cheers.
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coloclimber
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:25 am 
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Location: People's Republic of Boulder
SWEEEEET!
Nicely thought out - of course!

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djconnel
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:55 pm 
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Location: San Francisco, CA
timsterc wrote:
Great job Dan. It really has turned-out nice.

Can I borrow your wheels for the LowKey Hill Climb Series ???

Cheers.


Funny. :)

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cleavel
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:57 pm 
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Hi,

I like the Fuji SL/1 -- a clubmate has one. I didn't realize that you could get it to be so light.

Also, you must be a bit taller than the usual size small guy (like me) as that is a ton of seatpost and bar drop.

Good luck racing on it.

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djconnel
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:38 pm 
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Location: San Francisco, CA
cleavel wrote:
Hi,

I like the Fuji SL/1 -- a clubmate has one. I didn't realize that you could get it to be so light.

Also, you must be a bit taller than the usual size small guy (like me) as that is a ton of seatpost and bar drop.

Good luck racing on it.


Thanks! My height is 169 cm, but I'm 64 cm palm-to-shoulder, so my hands are lower than they might be for my height and back angle. Thus I require a relatively small head tube, which made the next size up less attractive. Also my femurs are relatively short, so I need a steep seat tube angle, which the small Fuji supplies. A Cervelo R3 SL, which is 90 grams less (but would have cost me a lot more) has a 73 degree seat tube and would not have been as good a match. It also has a tight front-center, which doesn't suit a low set-back position as well.

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djconnel
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 6:57 pm 
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Location: San Francisco, CA
updates:
  1. replaced stem bolts with Ti from Toronto Cycles. This takes my 11cm Performance Forte stem down to 112.7 grams from 125.1 grams, saving 12.4 grams. Not bad for the price!
  2. replaced bowties with CadenceWorks Al bow-ties. I also replaced the screws, although this didn't save much versus the original Speedplay X1 screws. This takes the Speedplays from 154.9 grams to 131.3 grams, saving 23.6 grams
  3. replaced SRAM 11-23 Red cassette (153.8 grams) with Recon Al 12-23 cassette (94.9 grams), saving 58.9 grams
  4. cut 3.9 cm off Thomson seatpost, saving 9.7 grams.
  5. replaced Red chain with mid-range KMC chain (not XL) because that's what the store had. I'll try a KMC XL-10 next. This added a bit of weight.
Not counting the chain, savings is 104.6 grams.

Total bike mass (calculated) = 11.59 lbm = 5.26 kg.
Measured = 11.57 lbm (5.25 kg) w/o second pair of bottle cage bolts.

Obvious potential improvements:
  1. upgrade that chain next time I replace it.
  2. lighter saddle? Issue is it's hard to commit to a new saddle, or even stripping the padding off my SLR, not knowing if I'll be less comfortable.
  3. A better bottle cage would be nice (my Performance Forte carbon doesn't hold bottles well, so I usually use a metal cage instead).
  4. That Thomson seatpost clamp is pretty heavy. But it really does do the job, so while I could replace it with a carbon fiber after-market version, saving 30 additional grams, that might not be wise.
  5. An Edge 1.0 fork might trim an additional 75 grams or so But since I can't swap the fork out for uphill timetrials versus flatter events, aerodynamics matters here. The Fuji fork looks aero, anyway.
  6. I could go to lighter chainrings. If Extralight sold 36-50, that would be perfect. My SRAM Force are 89.5 g (50) + 29.1 g (36) = 128.6 g (50-36)

No, I'm not switching to carbon fiber bars. After crashing at Berkeley Hills RR on Sunday, it was nice knowing had I been able to continue racing physcially I could have without worrying about my robust Ritchey Pro bars snapping on me. Sure, there's still the steerer tube, but I've heard of a lot more cases of bars breaking than steerer tubes breaking.

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