FWIW I'm down to 10mm of spacers already and that's where it'll be staying.

Stefan - no frame should be designed with zero spacers, that designs out any possible adjuastability and risks making the frame redundant if injury occurs or muscles tighten.

Not really - one single frame tube will be stiffer than segments of spacer.

I have a short torso BTW, which means I run a short top tube (55.5cm on this) compared to my saddle height (79.5cm). Consequently I run a tall head tube to avoid a massive saddle-to-bar drop.

There are hundreds of stems out there, with hundreds of different length and angles. An experienced cyclist knows on the mm how he wants to sit on his bike.

_________________
diversity.....

""the sheeps get loud... when the wolf is gone....."" Juan Marquez

stiffness and "responsiveness" is voodoo what you feel 5h, the second day your used to your new frame. stiff or not stiff.

_________________
diversity.....

""the sheeps get loud... when the wolf is gone....."" Juan Marquez

Very true Stefan, but our bodies change, and a change of stem may not be enough in some instances - what's the point in dialling out all adjustment in a frame just to have the stem slammed?!

Voodoo?! Genius...

there is too much bla bla (not meant personal) about stiffness, yes voodoo .. a good rider will be good on any bike, a average rider will not be better if you give him a super stiff bike. and we will feel the difference between a stiff or less stiff bike some hours, after we get used to it.

_________________
diversity.....

""the sheeps get loud... when the wolf is gone....."" Juan Marquez

True enough, but out of context really - we were only talking about the head tube length Vs spacers so bringing the whole bike into it is irrelevant.

Still far from 'voodoo' though - it's just that a good rider will easily adjust to the stiffness and responsiveness. Anyone who relies on a bike to make them better has very different issues entirely, that much I'm sure we are in full agreement on?!

When are we going to see side-on photographs of this machine!?

My interest is waning.

I should get the disc tomorrow...

I hate this forum, it makes so jealous. The miss with the red crank bolt eases the pain a bit though. So little can ruin so much, like the orange cable protectors on my i-links. Still the red bolt is worse

Nice bike dude, hope it brings you much joy.

I'm lost on the spacer debate. You've got it the wrong way round. Nobody gets lower on the bike through injury and age. The only way to get lower is to take up yoga, do core exercises and work off lard which otherwise obstructs pedalling.

But I do see the need for a couple of spacers. It gives you some flexibility to try lower stack pedals, shoes and a different fork or headset without needing to change the custom painted stem.

And IMHO aesthetics also count. Beyond about 56cm bikes begin to look like farm gates, so anything that shrinks the head tube is a good idea.

the spacer thing seems pretty sensible to me: Rich -Ti has unpredictable back issues and therefore wants to be able to raise the bars if he needs to.

It does carry an aesthetic penalty, no question about that.

agree with you mrfish on the aesthetics of bike frame size. It's geo and tube dimension dependent but generally frames of about 56cm are the best looking, closely followed by 54cm.

Exactly - so by having no spacers at all the only way to make the bike fit again is to replace the fork and return to a longer steerer. I run my bikes with a 5mm spacer above the stem as well as up to 20mm below, just so that I can move up again if I ever need to.

Regardless, this isn't the place for this discussion...

My back / shoulder / neck issues are only part of it - it's more that my inseam accounts for over half of my height. If I ran a standard frame I'd need a 55/56cm top tube, but the saddle-to-bar drop this would give me on most standard frames is just not sustainable. The only way around that is stacks of spacers and upturned stems - neither of which I'm prepared to do.

I run a longer head tube out of necessity - aesthetically I'm just about getting away with it on both of my bikes, but only just.