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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:15 pm 
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Tinker, Taylor, Tart

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:00 pm
Posts: 1927
Location: Sydney, Aus.
FWIW I'm down to 10mm of spacers already and that's where it'll be staying.

Stefan - no frame should be designed with zero spacers, that designs out any possible adjuastability and risks making the frame redundant if injury occurs or muscles tighten.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:21 pm 
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Tinker, Taylor, Tart

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Location: Sydney, Aus.
Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez wrote:
I understand the hate against spacers, but, isn't it better for the whole frame to be designed around a bit smaller HT??
I mean, considering stiffness and "responsiveness", must be better to drop 2 cm of HT and get some spacers?

Not really - one single frame tube will be stiffer than segments of spacer.

I have a short torso BTW, which means I run a short top tube (55.5cm on this) compared to my saddle height (79.5cm). Consequently I run a tall head tube to avoid a massive saddle-to-bar drop.


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Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:21 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:19 pm 
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Rich-Ti wrote:
FWIW I'm down to 10mm of spacers already and that's where it'll be staying.

Stefan - no frame should be designed with zero spacers, that designs out any possible adjuastability and risks making the frame redundant if injury occurs or muscles tighten.


There are hundreds of stems out there, with hundreds of different length and angles. An experienced cyclist knows on the mm how he wants to sit on his bike.

_________________
diversity.....

""the sheeps get loud... when the wolf is gone....."" Juan Marquez


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:22 pm 
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Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez wrote:
I understand the hate against spacers, but, isn't it better for the whole frame to be designed around a bit smaller HT??
I mean, considering stiffness and "responsiveness", must be better to drop 2 cm of HT and get some spacers?

Plus, it looks like he's trying to improve his own "flexiness" to throw away spacers progessively.


stiffness and "responsiveness" is voodoo what you feel 5h, the second day your used to your new frame. stiff or not stiff.

_________________
diversity.....

""the sheeps get loud... when the wolf is gone....."" Juan Marquez


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:25 pm 
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Tinker, Taylor, Tart

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:00 pm
Posts: 1927
Location: Sydney, Aus.
StefanR wrote:
There are hundreds of stems out there, with hundreds of different length and angles. An experienced cyclist knows on the mm how he wants to sit on his bike.

Very true Stefan, but our bodies change, and a change of stem may not be enough in some instances - what's the point in dialling out all adjustment in a frame just to have the stem slammed?!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:28 pm 
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Tinker, Taylor, Tart

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:00 pm
Posts: 1927
Location: Sydney, Aus.
StefanR wrote:
stiffness and "responsiveness" is voodoo

Voodoo?! Genius... :roll: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:38 pm 
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Rich-Ti wrote:
StefanR wrote:
stiffness and "responsiveness" is voodoo

Voodoo?! Genius... :roll: :lol:


there is too much bla bla (not meant personal) about stiffness, yes voodoo .. a good rider will be good on any bike, a average rider will not be better if you give him a super stiff bike. and we will feel the difference between a stiff or less stiff bike some hours, after we get used to it.

_________________
diversity.....

""the sheeps get loud... when the wolf is gone....."" Juan Marquez


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:46 pm 
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Tinker, Taylor, Tart

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:00 pm
Posts: 1927
Location: Sydney, Aus.
True enough, but out of context really - we were only talking about the head tube length Vs spacers so bringing the whole bike into it is irrelevant.

Still far from 'voodoo' though - it's just that a good rider will easily adjust to the stiffness and responsiveness. Anyone who relies on a bike to make them better has very different issues entirely, that much I'm sure we are in full agreement on?!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:17 pm 
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Posts: 4321
Location: Natovi Landing
When are we going to see side-on photographs of this machine!?

My interest is waning.

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Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:22 pm 
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Tinker, Taylor, Tart

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:00 pm
Posts: 1927
Location: Sydney, Aus.
I should get the disc tomorrow...


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 1:44 am
Posts: 139
I hate this forum, it makes so jealous. The miss with the red crank bolt eases the pain a bit though. So little can ruin so much, like the orange cable protectors on my i-links. Still the red bolt is worse ;)

Nice bike dude, hope it brings you much joy.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:13 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:49 pm
Posts: 1602
Location: Near Horgen, Switzerland
I'm lost on the spacer debate. You've got it the wrong way round. Nobody gets lower on the bike through injury and age. The only way to get lower is to take up yoga, do core exercises and work off lard which otherwise obstructs pedalling.

But I do see the need for a couple of spacers. It gives you some flexibility to try lower stack pedals, shoes and a different fork or headset without needing to change the custom painted stem.

And IMHO aesthetics also count. Beyond about 56cm bikes begin to look like farm gates, so anything that shrinks the head tube is a good idea.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:26 am 
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Posts: 4321
Location: Natovi Landing
the spacer thing seems pretty sensible to me: Rich -Ti has unpredictable back issues and therefore wants to be able to raise the bars if he needs to.

It does carry an aesthetic penalty, no question about that.

agree with you mrfish on the aesthetics of bike frame size. It's geo and tube dimension dependent but generally frames of about 56cm are the best looking, closely followed by 54cm.

_________________
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Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:36 am 
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Tinker, Taylor, Tart

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:00 pm
Posts: 1927
Location: Sydney, Aus.
mrfish wrote:
I'm lost on the spacer debate. You've got it the wrong way round. Nobody gets lower on the bike through injury and age. The only way to get lower is to take up yoga, do core exercises and work off lard which otherwise obstructs pedalling.

Exactly - so by having no spacers at all the only way to make the bike fit again is to replace the fork and return to a longer steerer. I run my bikes with a 5mm spacer above the stem as well as up to 20mm below, just so that I can move up again if I ever need to.

Regardless, this isn't the place for this discussion... :)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:41 am 
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Tinker, Taylor, Tart

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:00 pm
Posts: 1927
Location: Sydney, Aus.
sawyer wrote:
the spacer thing seems pretty sensible to me: Rich -Ti has unpredictable back issues and therefore wants to be able to raise the bars if he needs to.

My back / shoulder / neck issues are only part of it - it's more that my inseam accounts for over half of my height. If I ran a standard frame I'd need a 55/56cm top tube, but the saddle-to-bar drop this would give me on most standard frames is just not sustainable. The only way around that is stacks of spacers and upturned stems - neither of which I'm prepared to do.

I run a longer head tube out of necessity - aesthetically I'm just about getting away with it on both of my bikes, but only just.


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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:41 am 


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