45kph Ebike Rocketship - Scott Solace eRIDE 2023

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OtterSpace
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:28 am
Location: California Silicon Valley

by OtterSpace

Due to a recent move I either had to accept a longer bike ride to work with higher proximity to cars, and 'murican trucks, going much faster than me or a boring traffic laden soul crushing car commute.

Instead I decided to spend ungodly sums on an ebike that could better flow with traffic. Being a weightweenie* not just any bike would do and I couldn't just let it sit long without tuning it. *see my other bike: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=160741

Introducing the Scott Solace eRide 20 2023 XS (49cm) that I purchased locally used for $6500

Current weight: 11.22kg (24.75lbs) w/ pedals, bell, mirror, and bike mounted fender fixing hardware. Expected weight when I replace the tires after this set wears out: 11.11kg (24.49lbs) for the same setup otherwise.
Stated weights do not include rear light/camera/radar & mount, front light/camera, and bike computer.

Current photo (Nov 27th 2023):
late nov 2023.jpg
Weight as purchased with dork disk and flat garbage pedals ~13.6kg / ~30lbs.

As purchased:
first pic.jpg
In the USA by regulation this is a level 3 ebike which can assist up to 28mph or ~45kph. The assist this bike offers is limited to a sustained 250 watts max (edit: it holds 300 watts fairly well which is the claimed non sustained max) up to 200% of the power pedaled is added until the 300 watt max assist level is hit. For anyone outside of the USA your local regulations likely make this bike pointless if you purchase it locally.

The goal of this project is to build a commuter bike that gets me to work as fast as possible while still being a true road biking experience.

This is replacing my unposted ~6.6kg focus paralane shown below before I upgraded the brakes to magura. The focus paralane will either be sold or parted out so some parts can move over when it makes sense to try or replace parts on the solace.
Paralane.jpg
Last edited by OtterSpace on Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:23 pm, edited 19 times in total.

by Weenie


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OtterSpace
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:28 am
Location: California Silicon Valley

by OtterSpace

As more background info I initially purchased a Trek Domane+ 50cm for an eye watering $9,339.36 after tax with 105 di2 :shock:

On the trek I couldn't get as low as I wanted on the front end, the main triangle looked horrible on my small frame size, the seatpost visually looked of unmatched thickness to the ebike regardless of post setback, and worst of all I ran into issues with the TQ display communicating with the TQ motor so I returned it.
3.png
4.png
With the Solace I got;
+: lower price used, ultegra, a better visual triangle, better seatpost match, ability to go lower, better looking spider, standard 5 bolt spider interface
-: no warranty :shock: , not a matte paint job that I prefer, no carbon cranks, no direct mount hanger
different: no motor control on handlebar but harder to change while riding
Last edited by OtterSpace on Wed Jul 05, 2023 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

OtterSpace
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:28 am
Location: California Silicon Valley

by OtterSpace

reserved for high level updates.

Updated Aug 9th 2023:

Weight is currently sub 12kg with pedals tons of work to do still finding final fit but making progress.

For anyone reading this early in the process this bike shares many similar fixing parts to the Scott Addict RC and Addict. I've read the full 160 page 2020 Scott RC thread at the time of me posting this bike.

Already done or wip at time of posting:
Rear deraillure hangar to direct mount.
Carbon cranks.
Saddle swap which required ritchey saddle clamp.
Ti saddle clamp bolt.
Testing stem height with wide circular spacers.
Water bottle screws (more interesting than you would expect).

In planning stages:
Front end (TT bars and drop bars required but more TT bar adjustability prefered compared to my Focus Paralane).
Bearing swap when redoing front end.
Gearing (1x, 1x mullet, 2x?)
11 speed dura ace or 12 speed di2?
wheelset
tires
rotors
use motor cover in summer?
compression plug
Last edited by OtterSpace on Thu Aug 10, 2023 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Rodigan
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:57 am

by Rodigan

I'm so excited for this build. Are you going to add fenders like your old commuter?

mike
Resident Pro
Posts: 2983
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 9:42 pm

by mike

very nice. i would not get an e-bike myself but if you have an extensive commute that may be the way to go and still get a workout

tiddytoddy
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:16 pm

by tiddytoddy

May want to blur your home address in the future.

Excited to see the build!

OtterSpace
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:28 am
Location: California Silicon Valley

by OtterSpace

Rodigan wrote:
Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:32 pm
I'm so excited for this build. Are you going to add fenders like your old commuter?
I'll get a set but living in California I'll only run them very rarely. Because of this I haven't looked into what set will work the best yet. I can post soon what the mounting points are for reference when I cover the holes. The mounting points all currently have rubber inserts to prevent dirt ingress but I'm not a huge fan of them although its a nice touch for scott to include them I dont like the look of them and risk of losing a part I cant easily find a replacement for. I already purchased vinyl stickers to cover the holes instead until I need to mount fenders and they are so cheap that I'll just keep a sheet of stickers around.

Scott makes a set of fenders for this bike but I'll look around before buying in a few months: https://www.scott-sports.com/us/en/prod ... fender-set
mike wrote:
Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:56 pm
very nice. i would not get an e-bike myself but if you have an extensive commute that may be the way to go and still get a workout
The tech for ebikes is changing so rapidly compared to road, you basically are a beta tester, and who knows how long term support will work out. They certainly are fun but I wouldnt buy one unless you have a specific immediate need as they will only get better with time.

Hopefully I can be a bit of a guinea pig for others with this project to help inform them of the pros and cons.
tiddytoddy wrote:
Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:05 pm
May want to blur your home address in the future.

Excited to see the build!
Fair point its not my home but I edited it anyways.

OtterSpace
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:28 am
Location: California Silicon Valley

by OtterSpace

While I wait on headset spacers and parts compatible with oval seat rails to arrive I'll provide an update and info dump on some of the smaller parts.

The disc axles are surprisingly light at 26.39g front (scott part number 220804) , 29.64g rear (part number 221004), and 23.04 for the removable tool that I'll never use (part number 220503). Given they are hollow and tapered I don't see much reason to engage with changing them for now.
Front.jpg
Rear.jpg
Tool.jpg
The rear derailleur hanger is UDH (universal direct mount) but I never plan to run anything other than Shimano on this bike. I purchased a wheels manufacturing 562 Shimano Direct Mount Gravel/Road UDH which saved 8.76g when including the removed part from the derailleur. This is less of a weight thing for me and more of a best practice fit and finish change.
udh.jpg
562.jpg
562 installed.jpg
The seatpost is way lighter than I expected at about 141.24g including the battery attachment foam and all required hardware. Initially I was going to look into replacing it as I use darimo seatposts on all of my bikes. However, given how light it is I'm not surprised I haven't seen darimo seatposts on any Addict RC in the big thread here on that bike.
Seatpost & Battery.jpg
The specific seatpost it came with is 350mm length with 5mm setback and is named duncan 1.0 aero (who names these parts at Scott they make no sense and many parts have very similar stupid names). The battery was so snuggly in there I weighed it with the DT-DN300 still in place. From the Addict RC thread this seatpost system is manufactured by Ritchy and their fixing hardware can be purchased to fit non round rails which my prefered saddle has. The main bolt to attach the seatpost is 55mm long with a 9.5mm diameter head with a weight of 13.53g.
Seatpost.jpg
The stock saddle is some garbage I'll get rid of and weighs 260.42g. I plan to replace it with my 90.11g lupina.

The headset I'll detail later in another post as given the 1-1/4 steerer tube and integration there is a lot to go over as Scott Addict RC owners would attest to and most of what I am seeing aligns with postings in that thread.

OtterSpace
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:28 am
Location: California Silicon Valley

by OtterSpace

Now for the thing no one asked for water bottle bolts.

I often run cageless or with just one cage that I only use for rides over an hour or if its very hot. Instead I use lighter external collapsible running hydration.
Hydration.png
Because I run cageless or single cage I've kind of fixated on bolt height and like to run the lowest profile bolts possible to blend into the frame better.
Ultra-Low.png
My prefered bolts are 1.2g Ti ultra-low M5x12 which can be found cheap all over ebay or similar places. These fit fine on the seat tube but not the downtube due to packaging for the battery. All of the bolts provided are about 8mm length with a weight of around 2.75g ea.
Manual.png
Manual.png (19.08 KiB) Viewed 5325 times
I settled on steel bolts from mcmaster for the downtube that are steel M5x7.5 and weigh 1.5g.

Pre bolt change:
Pre2.jpg
Pre.jpg
Pre.jpg (35.97 KiB) Viewed 5325 times
Post bolt change:
Post2.jpg
Post.jpg
Post.jpg (43.24 KiB) Viewed 5325 times
total weight reduction from this madness 6.89g cleaner look priceless.

edit: note that on the Scott Solace none of these screws are supporting anything except bottles. However, on the Domane+ the top seatube bolt is required to support an internal bracket according to a trek mechanic. I have the Trek manual and can check this detail if anyone is interested. On post two of this thread you can see the stock domane+ bolts on the top image when I purchased the bike and the required bolt bottom image when I returned the bike.

eins4eins
Posts: 675
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:49 am

by eins4eins

I want those 38mm Pro Ones on this thing!

Other than that, i don't think the idea to flow with traffic with a motorized bike would work any better than a normal bike over here. Car drivers underestimate road bike speed already and this constantly leads to dangerous situation. Will be even worse going 20kmh faster.

OtterSpace
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:28 am
Location: California Silicon Valley

by OtterSpace

eins4eins wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:52 pm
I want those 38mm Pro Ones on this thing!

Other than that, i don't think the idea to flow with traffic with a motorized bike would work any better than a normal bike over here. Car drivers underestimate road bike speed already and this constantly leads to dangerous situation. Will be even worse going 20kmh faster.
In further research the 38mm Pro One is currently exclusive to this bike but should launch sometime in the future for the general market.

The 38mm Pro Ones are fairly heavy but likely are a more robust all around tire, without overly compromising rolling resistance, compared to cotton alternatives with less protection that I usually deploy. They are a good fit for what this bike is but I'm fine swapping out tires more frequently for better road feel and lower weight so I'll try out 28mm turbo cotton and 35mm rene hurse extralights that I have on the two wheelsets from my last commuter. Given this bike is a daily pick it up and go commute bike I plan to run TPU or butyl tubes as I dont want to pump up latex tubes every day, plan out tubeless refill, or swap tubulars while commuting for this specific bike and use case.

Currently I'm focusing on finding my final position and gearing plans for the bike before planning wheels and tires while the cockpit components are orderd, shipped, and installed.

On the front wheel the 38mm Pro One measured 38.02mm with a weight of 402.31g.
Front Weight.jpg
Front Width.jpg
On the rear wheel the 38mm Pro One measured 38.74mm with a weight of 418.69g.
Rear Weight.jpg
Rear Width.jpg

OtterSpace
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:28 am
Location: California Silicon Valley

by OtterSpace

In addition to my normal commuting I got in three hour plus climbing rides, each with over 1km of vertical ascent, in order to help determine what gearing I want to settle on to cover all of my use cases.

Overall at max assist this bike is just nuts for riding under 2hrs.

For my normal lunch ride I usually get in about .4km of vertical ascent with my 4.6kg izalco max and with this bike I do 1km in the same time. Other than the long wheel base which makes it take 90degree plus turns very slowly it handles like a normal endurance bike.

Here are some of the strava segment links I tried the bike on:
https://www.strava.com/segments/611999
https://www.strava.com/segments/5780306
https://www.strava.com/segments/288179

I reached the top of Umunhum with 25% battery in max assit after riding up from Los Gatos (about 23km to the top from my starting spot) and had no battery issues getting back for a 45km total ride. However at 10% it puts you in low assist mode which is something like 100watts assist vs the 250 at max.

For all of these rides I never used the small ring so 50/34 was more than enough even for 20%+ parts of segments even with 165mm cranks.
umunhum.jpg
If I could choose any gearing I wanted for this bike I would do 54/46 front 11/30 rear for a good mix between friction loss efficiency and smooth gear transitions. Unfortunately, the chainstays are very close so anything even slightly over 50/34 is likely out let alone 54/46. The 50/34 rings, especially the 34, are so close that scott didn't even stick a chainstay protector plate on the double configurations of the Solace eRIDE.

Due to the chainstay clearance issue I am leaning towards going single 50 ring 11/32 (11 speed red cassette) or 11/34 (11 or 12 speed) and dealing with the efficiency losses in 50/26+ that reach around 3watts at 50/34. I think this would be the best balance available for my range needs accounting for friction loss efficiency, shifting simplicity, and protecting the chainstay with weight savings offering a nice bonus. Alternatively I could stick with the 50/34 and only use the 34 inner ring through di2 synchro shift to get more efficiency but this would be annoying as front derailleur shifting would occur during steep climbing under significant load. I'll try synchro shift to see how I get on with it on this bike for now but I doubt I'll like it for this deployment.
1 - Chain.jpg
2 - Reference.jpg
3 - Clear View.jpg

User avatar
Miller
Posts: 2762
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

I'm intrigued by the aspect you haven't talked about - the motor. Does this thing give assistance constantly? EU regs for pedal bikes with e-assist have the assistance stopping at 28kph or thereabouts. Can you maintain 45kph with assist on this thing? What's that riding experience like? And, can you weight-weenie the electrics?!

OtterSpace
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:28 am
Location: California Silicon Valley

by OtterSpace

Miller wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2023 8:50 am
I'm intrigued by the aspect you haven't talked about - the motor. Does this thing give assistance constantly? EU regs for pedal bikes with e-assist have the assistance stopping at 28kph or thereabouts. Can you maintain 45kph with assist on this thing? What's that riding experience like? And, can you weight-weenie the electrics?!
Thanks for the question.

The biggest thing that factors into this is your countries regulations on when assist will cut off as you are aware of but I wanted to reiterate first.

In the USA this is a class 3 ebike meaning it cuts off assist at 28mph (approx 45kph) and is not throttle controlled meaning you need to pedal to get the assist. Reputable bike brands usually do not have electronic means of bypassing these limits while less reputable "bike" brands tend to have sometimes very simple electronic ways of bypassing these regulation limits designed in. There are mechanical ways of bypassing speed cutoffs regardless of electronic limitations but I will not get into that here and I have not investigated how to deploy them.

Looping back to your question for my unknown CdA and rolling resistance on this bike for flatish roads while commuting wearing jeans and a backpack I am ridding at at least 22mph (35.4kph) but usually 24mph (38.6kph) to 27mph (43.4kph). As you near max assist speed the bike starts to reduce the assistance which when going downhill feels like suddenly pedaling through mud so you are sort of trained to not work harder than you need to as you reach the max assist speed which is kind of unfortunate but understandable. Because of this fighting to maintain max boost doesn't offer the best ride feel as you have to take up the slack as the motor drops off which forces you to surge your power up and down instead of ride at a steady power. When I am doing sustained non technical downhill without turns I generally just soft pedal when I would be pushing hard on my other road bikes.

I haven't looked at the speed display option while on any of my three climbing rides so I can't give as detailed numbers for climbing performance but I would generally say I climb sub 10% at 16mph (25.7kph), in 50f/21r max and usually a smaller rear cog, and would have to test again to see climbing speed at 15% and 20% where I use 50f/34r or harder.

For my commute I am averaging 20mph (32.2kph) including time stopped at lights and 100m of climbing.

I am a fairly light weight and small rider so the 250 sustained assist (300 max non sustained) likely goes much further for me than it would for someone riding a 60cm frame who weighs twice as much. All of the numbers I've stated are without aero bars which should give 1-2mph more for the same power and riding conditions up to the 28mph assist cutoff through reducing CdA losses.

Regarding riding experience it feels rather normal strangely. We generally notice acceleration more than speed and the assist isnt snappy at the default settings that I am currently using. What I notice more is the reduced number of cars I see on my direction when commuting compared to what I would see before and a reduced delta speed of cars passing me. While climbing the speed is more noticeable but mostly from how much more climbing I can do or the speed delta that I can pass non ebikes. However the climbing is less rewarding as given the wattage cuttoff there isnt much reason to go into higher human added power zones of what you are adding in to support the motor. But the increased amount of climbing you do in the same time helps mittigate this point somewhat especially if you are time limited for your riding.

For me this isn't a replacement for a light weight road bike but it is a good supplement to one. On the other hand this bike is a replacement for my daily car commute with a much more enjoyable bike ride and I'd rather feed myself more food than fuel up my car more often.

The electronics can be tinkerd with if you are willing to recable the wiring harnesses or rehouse the battery but I will not be engaging with that side for the forseable future. Other less reputable brands tend to offer simple work arounds to bypass the limitations to avoid tinkering as well.
In Use.jpg
Assist Info.png
Max.png
As a quick aside in the richer areas near me there are tons of teenagers riding ebikes that should be capable of going faster than I can with easy assist bypasses. They do this while wearing no safety gear and likely no motorcycle, road cycling, or car driving experience, and sometimes with multiple people on a bike often without helmets. There is a reason road ebikes have a worse accident rate than motorcycles in the USA. Their "bike" of choice is something like the link below which can be software configured for throttle control, offers 750watts motor assist, and is 80 lbs (36kg).

https://super73.com/products/super73-s-adventure-series

I expect in the next decade or so these will be cracked down on or more regulated. Especially when you can get something like below without registration, insurance, or a license in the USA:

https://solarscooters.com/products/e-clipse

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Miller
Posts: 2762
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

Very interesting, thanks. Sounds like an excellent commuting solution.

Re your remarks about unregulated bikes, very true in UK too. There were a couple of high profile teenage deaths earlier this year. Police were alleged to be chasing kids on e-bikes, the kids then hit something unyielding at speed with a fatal outcome. The bikes of course were of course throttle controlled.

by Weenie


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