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 Post subject: Re: Berk PROTO-TYPE 3
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:14 pm 
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Carbon Cowboy
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Location: Slovenia
Thanks to all! :D


I already managed to do the reinforcements. Still quite a lot of work to do, but anyway, here are some new photos. The surface is still "rough", without any work on the surface. I still have to add a few thin layers of epoxy and of course sand the surface etc.,... I also have to do some more work on the dropout area, I have to cut the ISP, integrate the saddle and the rear brake bridge,...anyway, let the photos talk instead of me:


During the work...

Image
For each joint I used also one layer of carbon/kevlar hybrid..

Image



And after the beauty layer:

Image
934 :mrgreen: it will be SUB 1000g - even with the integrated saddle!

Image

Image

Image

Image

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Berk PROTO-TYPE Composites - Handmade In Slovenia
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 Post subject: Re: Berk PROTO-TYPE 3
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:17 am
Posts: 73
Looks brilliant :) cant wait to see the finished product :)


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 Post subject: Re: Berk PROTO-TYPE 3
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:33 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Berk PROTO-TYPE 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:38 am
Posts: 497
Wow, so just 3 layers? 1x uni, 1x carbon/kevlar, and 1x 3k plain weave?


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 Post subject: Re: Berk PROTO-TYPE 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:49 am 
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Location: Surrey B.C. Canada
This build is sick. 934g with ISP and sub 1000g with saddle. So if you take the normal weight of a saddle, post and clamp and subtract that from the 1000g rough finished weight you get a ~800g-850G frame. That also includes the internal run housings. Love it.

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 Post subject: Re: Berk PROTO-TYPE 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:09 am 
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Keep up the good work, on the bike and in the shop!

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 Post subject: Re: Berk PROTO-TYPE 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:40 am 
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Location: Vancouver
are you using a wet layup and then bagging the joints...?

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 Post subject: Re: Berk PROTO-TYPE 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:12 am 
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Carbon Cowboy
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Posts: 948
Location: Slovenia
Thanks for the compliments! :beerchug:


ricerocket wrote:
Wow, so just 3 layers? 1x uni, 1x carbon/kevlar, and 1x 3k plain weave?


Of course not just 3 layers. My aim is to make a stiff frame :wink:. For different joints I used different number of layers. For the BB I used 6 layers (from 190g/m2 to 250g/m2): 1 carbon/kevlar, 2x 3k 200g/m2, 3 BIAX. I had a lot of work that I made the right angles between those different layers of carbon...


BmanX wrote:
This build is sick. 934g with ISP and sub 1000g with saddle. So if you take the normal weight of a saddle, post and clamp and subtract that from the 1000g rough finished weight you get a ~800g-850G frame. That also includes the internal run housings. Love it.


Thanks! I'll also get some nice Sram Red parts :mrgreen: just can't wait that I make some more work on this project and that I build this bike! Unfortunately I won't be at home next week (till 20 June, because I'll have a stage race) but as soon as I will come back home I'll continue with the work :thumbup:

USofChay wrote:
Keep up the good work, on the bike and in the shop!

Thanks!

bJay wrote:
are you using a wet layup and then bagging the joints...?

Yes.

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 Post subject: Re: Berk PROTO-TYPE 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:13 am
Posts: 613
Location: Vancouver
Forgive me if Im asking too much, Im almost finished my BEng (mechanical and sports) and am mainly interested in composites...

1. what have you been using to make your molds..?
2. are you using a resin that needs to be baked or does it set at room temps...?
3. have you used FEA or CAD software to validate / develop your design, or is it more hand drawn + hand calcs you are using...?


I can pm if you want, or feel free to tell me to F**K off if you want too...

B

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 Post subject: Re: Berk PROTO-TYPE 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:40 pm 
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Carbon Cowboy
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Location: Slovenia
@bJay:
No problem :lol:. I just can't give you the "instructions" how exactly to make it because only I know how I make it, with my own methods and experimenting,...hope that you understand what I mean.

1. Otherwise there are no secrets about the moulds. If I would have more $ I would make all the moulds out of metal. I have only a few metal moulds, otherwise I make them by myslef with gelcoat, glassfibre,.. First I need a precise model and then I make the mould. For most of the round tubes I use some cardboard tubes (from a small factory that is only a few km away from me) or I make the model by myself.. It's a lot of work only with the moulds, because I make them very precise. If I would have a company I would sure make all the moulds out of metal, but as I mentioned, I would have to sell a few frames if I would like to pay off the moulds. I could also order the carbon tubes, but it's not the same for me, I love this work and I rather make it 100% by myself :thumbup:

2. No need to be baked (also room temperature would be ok), but it is better to heat it, and of course I do heat it.. I have the same materials as Akrapovič...also Parlee uses for their joints a resin that would harden at room temperature if it wouldn't be in cold store.

3. I don't like computers very much, and I rather construct it on paper, with all the calculations,...but probably I'll soon or later use also some software.

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Berk Composites
http://www.berk-composites.com/
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 Post subject: Re: Berk PROTO-TYPE 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:54 pm 
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bJay wrote:
3. have you used FEA or CAD software to validate / develop your design, or is it more hand drawn + hand calcs you are using...?


You never validate something with FEA, you allways have to validate the FEA :wink:

@Berk, great work as usual, can't wait for the finished frame.

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 Post subject: Re: Berk PROTO-TYPE 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:13 pm
Posts: 22
Location: London
:mrgreen: I can't help but be jealous

FEA & CFD are excellent tools but nothing beats good old grafting and real world results. That said make sure you use a gene pig for the first 500 miles or so :twisted: .

A few ideas for development;
1.Distructive testing of Berk 2
2.FEA

I know what I'd go for.....BOTH! Heck give me 2years and I'll do the FEA for you, but first I must complete the design and testing of my groupset.

A couple of questions. Is it the same no. of layers at the joints as the previous frame? What are the main alterations have you gone through to loose approximately 200g?


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 Post subject: Re: Berk PROTO-TYPE 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:11 pm 
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Carbon Cowboy
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Posts: 948
Location: Slovenia
@Mr.Hyde
Thanks! I'm also looking forward to see your frame project finished :thumbup:


@DuPreez
I trust my work and it's also one of the best parts to test the frame by yourself! I already compared the stiffness of the chainstays/seatstays by "squeezing the dropouts" together, and it is even stiffer than PROTO-TYPE 2, even without the brake-bridge! This time I made the chainstays a bit wider and also the BB is for press-fit bearings (the BB is wider) and that sure provides some better results.

I already wanted to test the frame, but it was just to expensive for me.. I would love to test it. If you could really do it after 2 years, then you could maybe test this frame :mrgreen: that would be really great. It would be also my dream job to have my own small company some day,..I already made a few custom products and it would be great if I could make more products. I also already have access to autoclave and the things are getting very interesting,..slowly the progress is better and better...


DuPreez wrote:
A couple of questions. Is it the same no. of layers at the joints as the previous frame? What are the main alterations have you gone through to loose approximately 200g?


No, this time it is even stronger :mrgreen:. The nuber of layers is not the same, but this time I used also 250g/m2 carbon, for PROTO-TYPE 2 I made a bit more layers, but also only with 130g/m2 carbon etc.,..if you would calculate how much carbon was used at the end, you would see that it would be around 2 layers of 200g/m2 carbon less. Hopefully you know what I mean..

I changed all the ALU parts for carbon parts. The bottom bracket is for press-fit bearings and also the dropouts are 100% carbon fibre. Only this is more than 120g less. And after more than 3000km with PROTO-TYPE 2, I saw what I can do different, more improved,.. First I changed the tubes for some round one. The toptube is now a "ellipse" and it is around 20g lighter than the "trapezium" toptube from P-T2, but still very stiff (you cant squeeze it like on some lighter frames like Addict etc.,.). Also the downtube is a bit lighter because the shape, and it is a bit stiffer. I used only top-quality carbon fibre for the carbon tubing and also some improved methods.. You can see this even on the surface of the rough tubes. Also the chainstays are lighter, most of the tubes are lighter also because their shape.. The chainstays probably aren't lighter, but are a bit wider and of course stiffer... I expect that this frame will be even a bit stiffer that the first one and a bit more comfortable. If I would cut the ISP the frame would be around 70g lighter (the frame would be only around 860g) with integrated cable routing etc.,.. There are a lot of details and I give attention to any detail to make "the ultimate" frame. For the reinfocements I worked more than 4 hours only to prepare all the pieces of carbon, each piece is on his place with a reason and task.. And I made it 300g lighter than the P-T2 :mrgreen: I trust my work because there were a lot hours of work on the paper and quite a lot of testing with my P-T2 frame. I noted any noticing in a notebook (more than 30 sites!), and after +3000km I already knew how to make a better, lighter frame..and here I am, pushing the limits of my skills, and this frame for sure won't be the last one! Aftir this frame I will sure try to make a new, lighter, better frame,...will see...and some day I also have to make a TT frame, I already have some ideas on paper,... Will see, I'll keep you updated after I come back home (after 20 June), just can't wait to do some more work! Thanks for your attention :beerchug:

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 Post subject: Re: Berk PROTO-TYPE 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:22 pm 
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Posts: 122
That is awesome! You sir have some talent! :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Berk PROTO-TYPE 3
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:08 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:13 am
Posts: 613
Location: Vancouver
Mr.Hyde wrote:
bJay wrote:
3. have you used FEA or CAD software to validate / develop your design, or is it more hand drawn + hand calcs you are using...?


You never validate something with FEA, you allways have to validate the FEA :wink:


clearly it was the wrong word to use, i meant test - most major manufacturers of CFRP etc products will test and develop several designs before they produce a few for real world testing.

its part the reason why i love composites so much, despite all the computer software etc, you still have to get out there and get your hands dirty to find out how it really works...

B

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Life is like riding a bicycle - in order to keep your balance, you must keep moving.
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 Post subject: Re: Berk PROTO-TYPE 3
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:39 pm 
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Carbon Cowboy
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:20 pm
Posts: 948
Location: Slovenia
Hi!

Some news - today I managed to prepare the surface for some more work (I have to do some more details for the cable-stops, brake-bridge,..). Later I'll add a few thin layers of resin and sand the whole surface again, to provide smooth surface and lines...

Here just one quick photo after sanding:
Image



And finally some parts for the build. I get some KCNC CB1 brakes for a very good price and I decide to give them a try.. As on the photo they are only 115g:
Image


Soon I'll get also some Sram Red parts... :thumbup:

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Berk Composites
http://www.berk-composites.com/
info(a)berk-composites.com


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 Post subject: Re: Berk PROTO-TYPE 3
Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:39 pm 


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