Campagnolo and Sram mixers question (Mods - could you move this to Road pls)

[Mr.Gib]

New bike with Campy Record. Currently all wheels in the house are Shimano Sram so I am running a Sram Red chain and an 1190 cassette. Runs silent, shifting is very good on the road but I wonder if it would be even better with a Campy chain and cassette.

Any first hand experience out there that can confirm there is a noticeable gain if I switch to a Campy chain and cassette? I don't care about the added durability which the Campy should provide. Rather, I am particularly interested in whether the shifting will be noticeable better.

I am about to buy a set of Boras and if it's all the same, then I would just get the Shimano/Sram cassette body version, continue to use 1190 cassettes, and be able to use the wheels on the 6 other bikes in the house.

[davidw]

The tolerances in 11 speed cassettes now are so close, it would be difficult to perceive a notable difference in shifting.

The grass always seems greener but honestly dood, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

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[Miller]

Can you borrow a Campag 11v wheel from someone?

[Mr.Gib]

I just realized I posted this in the wrong forum - should be in road. Mods, can you help a brother out?

[simoncx]

My cross wheels are shimano 11 spd cassettes and 1 wheel with 11 spd campy chorus, all shift perfect and I really can't tell any difference in how smooth or fast it shifts. The only difference was the ultegra cassette is a little lighter and cheaper to buy than chorus. I ran the same setup with dura ace, kmc and sram red chains the dura ace lasted the longest of the 3. I know a friend prefers campy but runs everything record but dura ace chain, he said it seems to run quieter.

[graeme_f_k]

My cross wheels are shimano 11 spd cassettes and 1 wheel with 11 spd campy chorus, all shift perfect and I really can't tell any difference in how smooth or fast it shifts. The only difference was the ultegra cassette is a little lighter and cheaper to buy than chorus. I ran the same setup with dura ace, kmc and sram red chains the dura ace lasted the longest of the 3. I know a friend prefers campy but runs everything record but dura ace chain, he said it seems to run quieter.

It actually depends on the ratios of the cassette - the sprocket to sprocket spacing on 11s Campagnolo is slightly different over the smallest 3 on an 11-up, compared to a 12-up and again on a 13-up. As the start-point of the indexing is slightly different between an 11-up and a 13-up (at either end of the spectrum), this can affect the shifting particularly mid-cassette where everything is more sensitive anyway.

Additional factors that then sometimes (in combination) cause issues are a cassette body in a different place relative to the rear hanger, hanger design and some elements of frame geometry so it's not really possible, once an assembly spec falls outside of the tested parameters, to say "yes that'll work" just because it works on one bike - unless you are dealing with two identiacl set ups on the same frame.

Chains with s ignificantly "squarer" outer link leading edge profile than Campagnolo do nasty things to the carbon of the FD cage as well as, on the older design EPS and current design Chorus mechanical 11s, being in part responsibe for damaging the bumper plate on the inside of the outer cage plate of the FD, in some cases of repeat shifting under high load, ripping it clean off - Campagnolo chains can still do this where shifting is repeatedly and incompetently carried out (full gas, high crossover) but the effect is much, much worse with KMC, Taya and YBN chains. We've noted this as a practical indication in the Service Centres over several years (since 2009 ...)

There are undoubtedly work-arounds and adaptations that will work in specific cases or even across a range of cases but with the increasing complexity of the demands placed on systems by customers, coupled, in the case of the OP's query to the increasing diversity of frame and hanger designs, the safest option to preserve in-spec shifting is to use parts that Campagnolo (or Shimano, or SRAM) specify as compatible. That way, as well, you have come-back. If you decide to go down some other route, you should probably not expect much sympathy if something goes (often expensively) wrong.

[Mr.Gib]

@graeme_f_k,

Holy f_k - that's an answer! Thanks.

I think your information explains quite well why there really is no definitive answer as to why some mixed groups appear flawless and some less so.

Fascinating about the bottom three cogs - I take it to mean one is more likely to have issue with a cassette that starts at 11 as compared to a cassette that starts at 13. I'm running compact crankset so always an 11 on there.

As it happens, I am using the Sram Red 22 chain which to my eye has very rounded outer plates, but thanks for that important warning about "squarer" chains. As for shifting under load, almost never felt the need, front or rear. When I was racing or now in group rides, if I'm not "ahead" of my shifting, then I feel my head is not in the game. Never understood all these guys crunching away in casual riding situations.

I need to ride this setup a bit more to see if there is room for real improvement. I have no major objection to buying Boras with a campy freehub and the wheelset functioning as Campy only in my stable. But if it works well, that Sram 1190 cassette is such a seductive piece of equipment. Great weight and durability. Hmmm.

Regardless of the risks of mixing groupsets, I think a great many consumers are pretty thrilled that after years of a real barrier, we now have some general groupset cross-compatibility. I think this is a good thing for Campagnolo. I wouldn't have bought a record groupset if I couldn't use it with the other wheelsets that I own.