Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Blog NEW Galleries NEW FAQ Contact About Impressum
It is currently Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:02 am

All times are UTC+01:00





Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 57 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 4 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:07 pm
Posts: 64
I'll do the CAD tomorrow but I ride ml Parlee with 760 saddle and 96 drop, 130 stem. Also c60/c59 same setup in a 52s or 56, stem slammed. This bike is gonna get you right about in the same place with the 130 stem slammed. It won't be quite as long a reach as the Parlee. Maybe run a -17 on the Colnago and you'll prob get it spot on.

Email me so I can return the CAD


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm
Posts: 4749
@Mockenrue says the Campy BB guide fits his Extreme Power. I've got some I could send you if you like but you could probably get one anywhere that installs Campy groups as well as they should just be lying around in the parts not used drawer for the most part.

_________________
Colnago C60 - PR99
C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


Top
   
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:11 am 


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Posts: 2908
Location: eh?
Calnago wrote:
@Mockenrue says the Campy BB guide fits his Extreme Power. I've got some I could send you if you like but you could probably get one anywhere that installs Campy groups as well as they should just be lying around in the parts not used drawer for the most part.

Thanks, you guys are all real gents - but I should be OK for the cable guide. local lbs has that campy part. The bigger issue is the barrel adjusters. A friend has some alloy BBB adjusters that should work while I set about getting my hands on the correct part.

SuperDomestique wrote:
I'll do the CAD tomorrow but I ride ml Parlee with 760 saddle and 96 drop, 130 stem. Also c60/c59 same setup in a 52s or 56, stem slammed. This bike is gonna get you right about in the same place with the 130 stem slammed. It won't be quite as long a reach as the Parlee. Maybe run a -17 on the Colnago and you'll prob get it spot on.

Email me so I can return the CAD

That's OK. Your anecdotal information is more than sufficient. Seems we are riding the same bikes with nearly the same fit.

Calnago wrote:
Yes, you should be pretty much bang on then with a saddle height of 76cm and your desired drop of 9cm, in fact depending on how you measure your saddle height (to a straight edge across the top) or just to the lowest "dip" point along the seat tube axis, it's likely you wont have any spacers at all above the Chris king headset with that -10/130mm stem (CK headset stack is 30.1mm installed) and from the pics it looks like your headtube is ~154mm. In fact, for some reason I thought you even mentioned a 10cm saddle to bar drop at one point and I kind of thought that may be tough to achieve with the 58, so probably better that it did arrive as a 57 in the end.
Looking forward to it being built up.

Yes, it's looking more and more like a 57 will fit as well as a 58. Really the only variable is the height of the front end. What attracted me to the 58 was that it would be a little more future proof. I do have significant spinal deterioration and I worry that in the future I may need to be more upright. However for the present I am very flexible (palms on the floor) and I am just as comfortable in the drops as I am on the tops. In the end the difference is a single cm. Still, I would love to have an explanation as to why the geo chart says 158 and my head tube measures 155 or 154. A real head scratcher. Maybe the best thing to do is to pretend I have some exotic custom geometry 'nago made to my exact specifications. :P

For saddle height I measure the saddle surface where it is intersected by the line through center of seat tube. Would be similar to "your lowest dip point". SQLab saddles are a bit different in their surface profile.

_________________
wheelsONfire wrote:
When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:21 am
Posts: 328
Here you go:

Image

Red bike is Parlee, blue is Colnago. Parlee spacer height represents the medium spacer. HT length for Colnago includes headset height plus a couple millimeters for the split ring and/or a very low top cover. Colnago fork length, HT angle and BB drop are guesstimates, but they seem to check out against the provided front center and chainstay measurements +/- a millimeter here or there. Overall, you should be fine with a slammed -8 130 mm stem, or you may want to go up to 140 mm depending on how the handlebars on the two bikes compare in reach. It will be easy to go less aggressive in the future if necessary, with a -6 120 mm stem for example.

I've used bikegeo.net to generate the diagram and the calculations, if you want to play some more with different setups.


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Posts: 2908
Location: eh?
Thanks Fiery, this is a very nice thing that you've done for me.

It is absolutely remarkable how close these two bike really are. And the one area where they are different, location of the front wheel, addresses the one reservation I have always had about the Parlee. I feel that the Parlee head tube angle of 73.5 tucks the front wheel too far underneath me. It's a great design that makes the Parlee extremely stable and agile at the same time, but it doesn't quite hook up and carve sweeping curves in the way that I like. The bike wants to run a little straighter and I find that I have to lean the bike more than I should to hold my line. I am talking about the very extremes of cornering limits, so on balance it is not a real issue, and probably a fair trade-off for the other desireable handling characteristics. However, I am betting that the Colnago, with its more laid back HT angle will address this issue.

_________________
wheelsONfire wrote:
When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:07 pm
Posts: 64
I got it like this, if you use a 130 -8 you are pretty much there with bar y, x is 5mm shorter than Parlee.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Posts: 2908
Location: eh?
So here are some quick and dirty photos after the build. At some point I'll post some proper photos in natural light.

My interest in this particular frame came from my desire to own a classic carbon frame with threaded BB, external headset, and external cable routing. Classic to me meant it had to be a Colnago, and the PR82 scheme was a design that I anticipate will never look dated or fadish. It is a bit safe and lacks the drama of some of the art decor paint schemes, but expect it will always be attractive to me. (As a side note, the new C60's with the painted lugs and seat posts are mostly unappealing to me. They are beautiful bikes, but will they be considered classic in the future? Will they become classic Colnagos? I'm curious what we will think of those designs in 20 years.)

As for my build, the aesthetic I was after was to let the frame stand out with no competition from other logos. Nothing exotic here. Record, Superleggera seatpost and stem, Fizik Cyrano 00 bar, and Mavic Pro Carbon SLC's (for now, Bora's in the future). 6.8 kg on the scale without pedals. Less then I expected. :D

It was interesting how the geometry worked out. My Parlee has in fact a 5 mm taller dimension between the fork crown and bottom of the stem, and a Pro PLT stem which has 5 mm more stack then the Superleggera on the Colnago. Net result: the Parlee stacks up about 1 cm taller at the bars than the Colnago. The PLT is 10 degrees and the Superleggera is 8 so it's not quite a full cm. The bars on the Colnago will get a bit higher when I switch to a longer stem. The frame was supposed to be a 58 cm but turned out to be a 57, hence the 120 mm stem. I need a 130 for this shorter frame.

Aprox 10 cm of drop
Image

the Parlee for comparison, 9 cm of drop
Image

Carefully debadged seat post leaving just the black Deda logo. I like the result.
Image

Chris King soto voce. 5 mm spacer under the 120 stem, waiting on a 130. The steerer will be cut after a few rides. Spacers will be changed for something more appropriate.
Image

Horrible photo of the front end.
Image

An interesting photo. This is the fork with a lightly used Conti GP 4000S at 100 psi on Pacenti SL23. So a fat tire on a wide rim (19 mm internal). It looks better than it is. The clearance at the top is almost 4 mm - excellent. BUT the gap at the shoulder is about 1.75 mm. It works but I won't ride it this close. Most other 25 mm tires are fine though. Lots of room for tires in the rear.
Image

_________________
wheelsONfire wrote:
When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.


Last edited by Mr.Gib on Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:49 am, edited 3 times in total.

Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:00 pm
Posts: 376
Very very nice!!


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 6676
Location: Athens, Greece
Looks perfect!

_________________
My 6536gr TIME Skylon
My 9733gr COLNAGO Master X-light


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:27 pm
Posts: 642
Indeed, very nice. Fyi, Chris King makes metal spacers that match the headset finish. Since you only need a few millimeters, using carbon wouldn't save more than a gram or three.

_________________
“If you save your breath I feel a man like you can manage it. And if you don't manage it, you'll die. Only slowly, very slowly, old friend.”


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:10 pm
Posts: 108
Location: Ottawa, ON
That’s a mighty fine looking seatpost! The bike’s not bad either. :wink:


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:17 am
Posts: 161
Location: bottom edge of Australia
Very nice indeed, matching stem and seatpost are perfect for that frameset.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:21 am
Posts: 328
That Colnago fork is quite short then, and I probably overestimated the HT + headset total. BB drop could be less than the estimated 70 mm too, that would also increase the saddle to handlebar drop.

The longer stem will give you just a millimeter or two of extra handlebar height, not that much unfortunately. You may want to set it up with 10-15 mm of spacers, or get a stem with a bigger stack height and/or a smaller angle.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Posts: 2908
Location: eh?
Fiery wrote:
That Colnago fork is quite short then, and I probably overestimated the HT + headset total. BB drop could be less than the estimated 70 mm too, that would also increase the saddle to handlebar drop.

The longer stem will give you just a millimeter or two of extra handlebar height, not that much unfortunately. You may want to set it up with 10-15 mm of spacers, or get a stem with a bigger stack height and/or a smaller angle.


These are some of the thoughts I had but, I measured the axle to crown again on the forks and both bikes are 370 mm. The difference in handlebar height is the result of 5 mm on the headtube, and 5 mm on the stem stack. Handlebar height is not an issue for me. I could ride with lots more drop quite happily, I just want my bikes to to have some leeway should the day come when I can't. I may leave a touch more extra steerer above the stem (although this offends me somewhat). In the mean time I have a nice 7 mm spacer which I am using to get close to the Parlee stack.

As for bottom bracket drop being a factor, the one place I saw BB drop for these frames mentioned, the number was 70 mm. I'll see if I can figure out a clever way to get an accurate measure to see if it is something other then 70 mm.

The most interesting geometry issue I am encountering is the length of the bike. With the setback the same on both bikes, the distance to the center of the bars from the nose of saddle is in the 4 to 5 mm range. Remember that this is with a 120 mm stem on the Colnago and a 130 mm on the Parlee. The distance should be a full 10 mm. I just can't figure out how the Colnago is so long. I measured the TT center to center which is somewhat imprecise because of all the rounded tubes. It is supposed to be 556 mm and looking at the tape measure this seems possible, but I could make a stronger argument for 560 mm. When you combine this with a head tube that is clearly out of spec by 3 - 4 mm, it is fair to wonder if this is a custom geometry frame. Perhaps Colnago built a custom Extreme Power for one of the teams (Rabobank, Milram, etc.), it wasn't needed, so Colnago said what the heck, it's basically a 57, lets paint it up and ship it out. It wouldn't be the first time a "weird" Colnago has ended up on the market.

Yesterday after about 80 km on my Boone Disc (roads were wet in the AM), I took the EP out for about 40 km. Immediately I wanted the seat a few mm further back, which surprised me. If the extra "length of the bike was due to a mis-measure of the saddle setback, you would think I would want the seat further forward. After that everything felt decent except I was looking for a touch more reach so I think a 130 stem is still the way to go. I'll post up a ride report soon when I have had some more time on it (if the weather ever improves :evil: ).

_________________
wheelsONfire wrote:
When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm
Posts: 4749
Hey Mr. Gib... so she's done and on the road. Nice job. Since you're getting into the minutiae of millimeters here and there, the axle to crown length is most likely 368mm (at least that's what they used to spec and I think it's the same to this day). It's somewhat hard to actually sight perfectly, in much the same way as it's difficult to get a super precise top tube length. Also, the headtube angle is no doubt much less than 73.5*, and I suspect it is more like 72.3*.
BB drop is likely 70mm as that's been pretty standard as well. When they didn't used to list it I checked it on my C59 and sure enough... 70mm was what I got. You can measure it if you can pinpoint the center of the BB somehow. I have a cone shaped cylinder that fits into the hole of campy crank, much like a headset centering tool would when facing a headset. I has a center point that I reference. Simply prop the bike straight up on a level floor, measure the distance to one of the skewer centers on the drive side to the floor. Then measure the distance from the BB center to the floor. Subtract that number from the first and voila, you've got your BB drop. Do the measurement from the drive side since you can get pretty close to the center point of the skewer here versus the other side where you have the skewer handle making a center point more difficult to find. Also, make sure the tires are the same size on both wheels, doesn't matter what size, just as long as they're the same.

But I think at this point, it's just a moot exercise (but I understand wanting to know why it's different), and you should do what you are doing and find your perfect position on that bike via trial and error. One thing I'd like to know is the exact wheelbase of the two bikes, measured again from the drive side as the distance between the center point of each skewer end.

Enjoy it!

_________________
Colnago C60 - PR99
C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


Top
   
Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:27 pm 


Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 57 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 4 Next

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Colnago Extreme Power PR00

[ Go to page: 1 2 3 ]

in Introduce Yourself / Gallery - Please use metric weights.

SLCBrandon

33

2251

Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:45 am

SLCBrandon View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Colnago Master X-Light PR82

in Introduce Yourself / Gallery - Please use metric weights.

SpecializedColnago

4

1693

Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:53 pm

SpecializedColnago View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. colnago extreme C with ETAP

in Introduce Yourself / Gallery - Please use metric weights.

KB

10

1290

Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:30 am

campagowlo View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Parlee Z3 - Rebuild... Full build pics at bottom of page 1.

[ Go to page: 1 2 ]

in Introduce Yourself / Gallery - Please use metric weights.

Lig

18

2780

Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:34 pm

Lig View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. TrainerRoad - Short Power Build

in Training

alastairb

8

1129

Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:55 pm

JackRussellRacing View the latest post


All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: istigatrice, jeffy, Mtek and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited