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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:52 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:09 pm
Posts: 11
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Hello, I am pretty new to Weight Weenies, but I got some great wrenching advice here and I want to introduce myself and my Colnago C60 61CM Traditional PLWH bike.
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It’s a bit unusual in that the drivetrain is a combination of Campagnolo and SRAM components. Since I was born a long time ago, and the terrain I ride sometimes includes 20% gradients I wanted a lowest gear ratio comparable to my 2001 Trek 5900 triple which has a 32 largest cog on the cassette, resulting in a .9375 : 1 gear ratio.

I also wanted to bike to be as authentic Italian as possible, so I tried to use a Super Record 11 drivetrain to the degree possible. Of course since Campy doesn’t make MTB drivetrains or road triples any longer, I had to incorporate either a Shimano or SRAM cassette. I calculated that a 36T cog combined with a Campy 34T small chainring would result in a .9444 :1 gear ratio. I was unable to find any Shimano 11 speed cassettes with a 36T largest cog, although there were some with even larger cogs. The only 11 speed cassette with a 36T largest cog was the SRAM PG-1170.

I learned through an excellent article at the link below, that a SRAM (Exact Actuation) 10 Speed Mountain derailleur paired with a SRAM 11 speed Road shifter would work with the SRAM PG-1170 cassette.

http://blog.artscyclery.com/science-beh ... atibility/

Here's a pic of the mixed OEM shifters:
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The component list:

*Campy Super Record 11 Ultra Torque Compact crankset, 50/34
*Campy Super Record 11 Front Derailleur
*Campy Super Record 11 Ultrashift Ergopower left shifter (I had to by a pair and use only the left!)
*SRAM Red 11 speed right shifter (these are luckily sold as either right only, left only or a pair)
*SRAM 11 speed PG- 1170 11-36 "Road" cassette
*SRAM 10 speed MTB long cage ”Exact Actuation" rear derailleur
*Shimano Ultegra 11 speed chain
Campy Super Record 11 Dual Pivot Skeleton Brakes
*Zipp Service Course SL-80 Alloy Handlebars (I was unable to find 46 MM C-C bars to my liking from an Italian manufacturer).
*Ritchey WCS 130mm +17 degree Alloy stem (the ONLY white, 130 MM + 17 degree stem I found in 3 weeks of searching!)
Deda Carbon spacers
Deda Handlebar tape
*Shimano Dura Ace 7900 carbon pedals
*Sella Italia SL XC Flow Saddle - Colnago branded
*Wishbone TF82525C Threaded Bottom Bracket Cups for Campy Ultra Torque
*3T Orbis II C50 Carbon Clincher wheels

The unusual rear derailleur cable entry point, without the traditional "loop":
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Wishbone TF82525C Threaded Bottom Bracket Cups for C60 and VR-1:
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Bottom Bracket installed, non-drive side:


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Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:52 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:22 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:45 pm
Posts: 87
Location: Newcastle, UK
That's an unusual setup you have there; at least you won't meet anyone with the same bike!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:16 pm
Posts: 620
Location: Irvine, CA
Can you tell us more about the BB? Does it screw directly into the frame or fit into the removable Colnago cups??


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:21 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:36 pm
Posts: 982
Location: GA
It's a beautiful frame set and - appreciating you were "born a long time ago" - I can kind of understand the stem but surely that saddle angle isn't right?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:26 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:25 am
Posts: 1468
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Another Triple aficionado here.

Don't really want to be the person to tell you this, but Campagnolo still do a Triple group - Athena 11 speed triple.

Nice bike.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:14 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:53 am
Posts: 299
Location: Slovenia
This is not possible, Colnago can look uggly.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:09 pm
Posts: 11
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
mnmasotto - The Colnago C60 and VR-1 use the Threadfit 82.5 system. A steel sleeve is bonded into the bottom bracket shell of the frame. The frame will come with the sleeve you see in the photo, permanently bonded in. The tool you see next to it is for removing the replaceable alloy sleeves. I understand that the tool used to come with the frame but mine did not and it wasn't an omission because the user manual explicitly states that the tool is not provided with the frame. The part number of the tool is UTU0900 and it can be purchased here: http://www.excelsports.com/main.asp?page=8&description=Pressfit+Bottom+Bracket+Tool&vendorCode=COLNAGO&major=6&minor=11

Image

The steel sleeve has threads on either end, and replaceable alloy sleeves thread securely into both ends of the permanent steel sleeve (as shown above). Here is a good article explaining it, with photos:
http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/news/a ... ing-40228/.

Had I gone the traditional route (which I did not) the next step would have been to press in Campagnolo Ultra-Torque BB86 Adapters like these, secured with Loctite.
Image With the adapters in place, the next step would have been to install the Ultra Torque crank arms.

I ordered my frame at the end of July and it didn't arrive until early December. In the meantime, I discovered an aftermarket solution made by a Taiwanese company called Wishbone. The Wishbone TF82525C bottom bracket: Image threads directly into the permanent steel sleeve after the Colnago replaceable alloy sleeves are removed. Each Ultra Torque cranks arm comes with a ceramic bearing pressed onto the spindle. When installing the crank arms, the bearings fit snugly into the cups of the Wishbone bottom bracket, but they are not "pressed in"; they go in with gentle pressure once they are correctly aligned.

The fully threaded solution Wishbone TF82525C solution appealed to me because it meant that I did not need to press in the Campy Ultra-Torque BB86 adapters and secure them with Loctite.

The eBay seller that I used is named mr_ride. Here is a link to an ebay listing for the TF82525C.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/mr-ride-BB-TF82 ... 1112796027 Please also not that Wishbone makes other bottom brackets for the Colnago C60 and VR-1 to accomodate any type of crankset. Those can be seen at the Wishbone site herehttp://www.wishbonetw.com/TW/product.php?fid=8&sid=27 and mr_ride carries all of them.

There is an entire weight weenies thread devoted to Colnago C60 bottm bracket options here: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=137823


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:58 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:09 pm
Posts: 11
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Valbrona - Thanks for the info. I love triples too, and I have one on my everyday Trek. For this bike though, I would still have gone with the Campy Super Record 11 Ultra Torque compact double crank set, even if I had been aware of the Athena. I wanted all components to be at or near the top-of-the-line.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:38 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:09 pm
Posts: 11
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
bencolem - You're right; I like a slight upward tilt, but that was too much. I brought it down to where the nose is just slightly higher than the rear.
The bike looks a bit sharper now. Thanks!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:19 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:37 am
Posts: 141
Location: Lyngby, Denmark
Lovely frame, and great BB solution!!
Just a few thoughts, a shiftmate could help you aswell, with this you can run campag shifters both front and rear, and match it up with the sram rear dir. http://www.jtekengineering.com/resource ... atibility/

Also you state that you dont want the athena tripple because its not the top of the line, then I dont understand the x9 rear der. X9 is mid/low level in the SRAM mtb range.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:16 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:09 pm
Posts: 11
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
alpinestar - I actually did consider the shiftmate when I was researching compatability. Then I came upon this article: http://blog.artscyclery.com/science-behind-the-magic/science-behind-the-magic-drivetrain-compatibility/ which, in the chart towards the bottom shows that the SRAM (Exact Actuation) 10 speed Mountain derailleur paired with the SRAM Red (Exact Actuation) 11 speed Road shifter would result in the exact same amount of lateral derailleur travel as if I had paired the SRAM 11 speed Road derailleur with the SRAM Red 11 speed Road shifter, plus, it had the benefit of coming in a long cage version which made it compatible with the PG-1170 11-36T cassette.

By the way, the rear shifting is the better than any Shimano drive train I have owned. It is spot on with all 11 cogs, whether shifting up or down, without a hint of any grinding noise. I can't speak to Campy rear shifting as I have yet to own such a drive train. I am sure I will some day as I have the shifter in a box gathering dust at the moment.

I also like the fact that I could get the 10 speed rear der. in white. I thought it was kind of a nice "accent" since there are no other white parts in that area.

I appreciate your feedback and there is no right and wrong in these things. Choosing among the available options is a big part of the joy of building a custom bike. So is the opportunity to chat with other cyclists.

Thanks for taking the time to read by post and make a comment. Safe roads and tailwinds to you!

EDIT: I was just looking at the SRAM site and I see there are a few options for higher level 10 speed rear derailleurs with Exact Actuation. The XX Rear Derailleur looks pretty sweet. Its good food for thought for a future upgrade. Right now it shifts so well I don't want to touch it.

EDIT 2: Well I didn't hold out long, I ordered this ! Image


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:16 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:06 am
Posts: 9
how about the 17 degree stem?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:56 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:57 pm
Posts: 4590
Location: Vicenza
How is the BB holding up?
Any strange noise or problems?
Thanks

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My current ride


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:05 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:56 pm
Posts: 226
Damn nice bike
But so much money wasted on a bike that doesn't fit and with that kind of position you don't benefit from colnago great geometry, you're changing the repartition of weight upfront ....

Should have bought a endurance geometry road frame
Or build a custom frame with the right stack


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Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:05 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:13 pm
Posts: 106
I don't think it's a waste at all, yes it would look better with a 0 degree slammed stem, but if it's the choice between riding a colnago or not, i'd take this set up everday of the week!


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