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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:05 pm 
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LorneMalvo wrote:
Damn Calnago, your attention to details is just inspiring! So well documented it's always a pleasure to read through your build threads. I'm glad you've got your hands on that more than rare PR99 C60 because you gave that special frame the deserved treatment We have the "barn find" topic going on in another thread at the moment, I'm just thinking when at some point in the future maybe some lucky guy steps in your barn... this just puts a smile on my face
I think it's time now for a picture of the whole Colnago stable of yours, that would be too good.

Thanks @LorneMalvo: I love the "Barn Thread", and given that I still have my Colnago Catalogs, I could very well end up like that old guy giving away his bike stuff to a deserving young lad, or old lad, as the case may be.

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Colnago C60 - PR99
C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:27 pm 
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Location: Ottawa, ON
Calnago wrote:
I made a little "tool" that I always use to make sure the chain length is good.

I made one of those too, only out of thin coat hanger wire like you get from the dry cleaners. It looks like this:
Image
Anyway… Chapeau, sir! I've been wrenching on Campagnolo for ~30 years and I still learned a thing or two.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:32 pm 
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Great thread Cal! I'd love to hear what you think about C59 vs C60 since you have both set-up so similarly.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:49 am 
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Fantastic update to a fantastic thread.

Thanks much for taking the time and effort to deliver such a superb presentation.

:beerchug:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:27 pm 
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Why don't you skip the spacers and move up your levers?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:50 pm 
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Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Thank you very much for this thread, Calnago!

This awesome frame deserves the great attention that you took for the installation & documenting!

Chapeau! :beerchug:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:34 pm 
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Location: Toronto, Canada
Once again Cal your level of detail and attention in putting a build thread together is bar none.
This bike is an absolute stunner and thank you for your insight into setting up a post-2015 front der without the barrel adjuster. I will definitely give it a go.
If I had to nit pick here it would be the bars/lever position (echoing PSM above).
If you go with something like a Zipp SL88 (my absolute favourite drop bar out there, despite me being a long time deda fan) you can run the levers about 1cm (if not more) higher, still get a perfectly parallel to the ground position for them and drop a few spacers in the process.

Enjoy that beauty
:beerchug:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:31 pm 
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Location: The Alps
Maybe it is just me but I don't really get the removing spacers / run levers higher thing. I sure get your intention to have the levers at the same position whilst loosing some spacers, but at the same time this means raising the saddle to bar drop which really affects your fit on the bike.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:05 am 
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PSM wrote:
Why don't you skip the spacers and move up your levers?

So, strictly for aesthetics then?

Where to start...
I prefer a Classic type bar with a "ramp" down to the hoods, and a longish straight portion in the drops. Why? Because it gives me basically three height positions as I move forward from a) hands next to stem on tops of bars, to b) hands in the hoods and c) hands on the drops. The hands on top of the bars position is the most relaxed and upright, and I often like that position while climbing as well. Not thinking about anything particular. As I place my hands on the hoods, my entire torso pivots forward and shoulders get lower etc. Rather than a mini "superman" stretch out to the hoods at the same height as the bar tops next to the stem, I like to sort of let my shoulder/arm position go with me and fall into the hoods, which are a good 2cm lower than the tops of the bars next to the stem. Finally, in the drops I get even lower for the most aggressive position but still at a position I can hold.

That position on the tops of the bars is very important to me, as it's kind of a default when I'm very fatigued and just feel like I can't, or don't want to, ride anymore. My body is more upright at that point. Taking out the spacers, and using the same stem and angle, would mean that position is a whopping 2cm lower than it is now. Ouch... when I'm super fatigued the last thing I want is for my bars to be "pulling" me down. Let me just relax, or I will cry. Now, I could take the spacers out and flip the stem up, to get approximately the same height, but not only would it look horrifically dumb, it also brings the reach back more as well. It's a tradeoff. 2cm of spacers is not a big deal imo, especially on a larger frame. More than 2cm or so, and I start to wonder if maybe a larger frame might be a better choice, but there's a lot of things to look at, so I still say maybe. if someone has a very short torso and longer legs, a lot of spacers, and even a flipped up stem, may be how they achieve a decent position, for them. It's easy to bend over and get lower when you feel like it... with the drops obviously being the most aggressive of those positions, and through the magic of bending elbows I can get as low as I ever want. Getting low is never a problem of the bike. But getting the bars higher cannot be done with elbows and once you're fatigued and sitting up, your arms can only reach so far... PLEASE let me reach the tops of my bars at least. Ha.

So there you have it... it's a fit and ride style preference thing. What I don't get is the setups I see where the hoods at the levers are actually higher than the tops of the bars by the stem. But... to each his own I guess. I like a saddle to bar drop of between 7-9cm. That's a good range for me, with these types of bars. Setting the bars lower will not allow me to get my body lower... that's easily achievable, and the position of the drops as shown are absolutely the lowest I would want them to be. And no, I don't want super shallow drop bars to compensate as my wrists bang the sides of a short reach shallow bar of say 125mm drop. Also on a large frame short super shallow bars look like a little head on a big cat, disproportionate. But removing the spacers and setting the bar lower will definitely limit how much I can sit up and relax without feeling that "top of bars" position is too far away.

Hope that's a decent enough explanation. Oh, and as for aesthetics... I think classic shaped bars are the shizzle. But that part's subjective.

_________________
Colnago C60 - PR99
C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:51 am 
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Posts: 227
LOVE classic shape bars Calnago, they are the ultimate. Love your build post, the attention to detail and super photo's. That bike just looks magnificent. It's a credit to you that build. Well done.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:02 am 
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Posts: 4768
lirek15 wrote:
Once again Cal your level of detail and attention in putting a build thread together is bar none.
This bike is an absolute stunner and thank you for your insight into setting up a post-2015 front der without the barrel adjuster. I will definitely give it a go.
If I had to nit pick here it would be the bars/lever position (echoing PSM above).
If you go with something like a Zipp SL88 (my absolute favourite drop bar out there, despite me being a long time deda fan) you can run the levers about 1cm (if not more) higher, still get a perfectly parallel to the ground position for them and drop a few spacers in the process.

Enjoy that beauty
:beerchug:

Thanks @lirek15: I get what you're saying, but I like my hoods where they are in space, and I also like the tops of the bars where they are as well. You won't get that with bars (such as the Zippsl88) which provide more of a flat transition to the hoods. Matter of preference really, and I prefer a height differential between the tops of the bars and the hoods. A long time ago I tried some bars which had a flat transition to the hoods. Used them for a long time. They were fine. I just prefer the classic shape more as it's comfortable to me and I think provides more varied positions to use during the course of a long ride. I can live with the huge spacer tower... look away :). If I could have got this frame in a 61 I may very well have, but part of me really wants to ride the 59 just to experience what the small difference in size feels like, and whether I can even notice the difference in handling. I think it's kinda funny because at this very moment there's another thread going on about slamming a stem and shaving every last millimeter away. We all have our priorities I guess.

_________________
Colnago C60 - PR99
C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:27 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:42 pm
Posts: 851
Location: Pa USA
Way too thought out. The stem's not slammed. Us old dudes don't get it. Oh yeah, I cook my chain in a us cleaner with simple green or another degreaser and then wax. Works great in the real world.

No offense to any of the other posters but read the thread. Do y'all think he might have figured out what works along the way? I ve been spinning wrenches for 30+ and am still gobsmacked at the detail here.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:39 am 
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Posts: 4768
Who you callin' old @glepore? Lol.
Thanks for the props. I won't be presenting this kind of detail in a build thread again but it was a fun, if not time consuming, experience. And that reminds me I need to go back and add something kind of important to the part about setting up the new Campy front derailleur without using the inline adjuster. I'll just mention it here so i when I come back I don't forget.

_________________
Colnago C60 - PR99
C59 Five Years Later
My Special Colnago EPQ
Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:48 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Posts: 2922
Location: eh?
Cal, I admire your patience on the bar/shifter position issue. I thought you explained it perfectly well first time around. I think the appearance if perfectly fine - this from someone who takes the opposite approach to lever positioning. I cannot abide a ramp down to my shifters, and I cannot even tolerate shifter hoods that are dead level (parallel with the ground). I need the hoods tilted up slightly to eliminate some angle from my wrists and distribute pressure more evenly over my palm. I like my hoods to "oppose" the direction of force from my body somewhat. Takes some burden off my core. Like you say - to each his own.

And speaking of Campy front derailleurs, do I really need a chain catcher?

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Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:48 am 


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:45 pm
Posts: 1566
Location: Stockholm, The Arctic...
Calnago wrote:
PSM wrote:
Why don't you skip the spacers and move up your levers?

So, strictly for aesthetics then?

Where to start...
I prefer a Classic type bar with a "ramp" down to the hoods, and a longish straight portion in the drops. Why? Because it gives me basically three height positions as I move forward from a) hands next to stem on tops of bars, to b) hands in the hoods and c) hands on the drops. The hands on top of the bars position is the most relaxed and upright, and I often like that position while climbing as well. Not thinking about anything particular. As I place my hands on the hoods, my entire torso pivots forward and shoulders get lower etc. Rather than a mini "superman" stretch out to the hoods at the same height as the bar tops next to the stem, I like to sort of let my shoulder/arm position go with me and fall into the hoods, which are a good 2cm lower than the tops of the bars next to the stem. Finally, in the drops I get even lower for the most aggressive position but still at a position I can hold.

That position on the tops of the bars is very important to me, as it's kind of a default when I'm very fatigued and just feel like I can't, or don't want to, ride anymore. My body is more upright at that point. Taking out the spacers, and using the same stem and angle, would mean that position is a whopping 2cm lower than it is now. Ouch... when I'm super fatigued the last thing I want is for my bars to be "pulling" me down. Let me just relax, or I will cry. Now, I could take the spacers out and flip the stem up, to get approximately the same height, but not only would it look horrifically dumb, it also brings the reach back more as well. It's a tradeoff. 2cm of spacers is not a big deal imo, especially on a larger frame. More than 2cm or so, and I start to wonder if maybe a larger frame might be a better choice, but there's a lot of things to look at, so I still say maybe. if someone has a very short torso and longer legs, a lot of spacers, and even a flipped up stem, may be how they achieve a decent position, for them. It's easy to bend over and get lower when you feel like it... with the drops obviously being the most aggressive of those positions, and through the magic of bending elbows I can get as low as I ever want. Getting low is never a problem of the bike. But getting the bars higher cannot be done with elbows and once you're fatigued and sitting up, your arms can only reach so far... PLEASE let me reach the tops of my bars at least. Ha.

So there you have it... it's a fit and ride style preference thing. What I don't get is the setups I see where the hoods at the levers are actually higher than the tops of the bars by the stem. But... to each his own I guess. I like a saddle to bar drop of between 7-9cm. That's a good range for me, with these types of bars. Setting the bars lower will not allow me to get my body lower... that's easily achievable, and the position of the drops as shown are absolutely the lowest I would want them to be. And no, I don't want super shallow drop bars to compensate as my wrists bang the sides of a short reach shallow bar of say 125mm drop. Also on a large frame short super shallow bars look like a little head on a big cat, disproportionate. But removing the spacers and setting the bar lower will definitely limit how much I can sit up and relax without feeling that "top of bars" position is too far away.

Hope that's a decent enough explanation. Oh, and as for aesthetics... I think classic shaped bars are the shizzle. But that part's subjective.
¨

Ha ha! Accepted.

Your are real talker Cal. 8)


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