My Cipollini bond

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RC856
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:37 pm

by RC856

Really like that :thumbup:

Are the Gatorskin tubs are better ride than the clincher version?
I thought a lovely set of wheels like those would benefit more from really nice set of tubs?

by Weenie


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kgt
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Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

I don't like the ride of my gatorskins actually! lol
I just got them at half price and I really respect their puncture resistance.

I am more of a high tpi Veloflex-Vittoria-Challenge tubular guy. Even my cheap Vittoria Rally tubulars have a better feel than Continental!
So, yes I would like to get a pair of Veloflex by spring.

lirek15
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Location: Toronto, Canada

by lirek15

Kgt, that's a beaut. Is it true that cipo's come with really short HTs?

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kgt
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by kgt

Yes. My Bond has a normal-to-small length of 15.2cm for a 56cm frame.
RB0,8K's is much shorter (13.2) and RB1K's is tiny (12.7).

arthurf
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 9:13 pm

by arthurf

kgt wrote:Yes. My Bond has a normal-to-small length of 15.2cm for a 56cm frame.
RB0,8K's is much shorter (13.2) and RB1K's is tiny (12.7).


RB0.8k has 15.2cm ht on a 56. The bond has the same geometry as the 0.8k but isn't a full monocoque frame and may use a lesser grade carbon?

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kgt
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by kgt

The geometry is not the same. RB800 has 15.2cm ht on a large which is actually quite larger than Bond's large. The Medium RB800 frame, which is much closer to Bond's large, has a 13.2 HT. (I wanted to get a RB800 at first but I had either to get a frame too large for me or have a tiny headset with 3cm of spacers.)

RB800 and RB1000 use Torayca T1000.m46J carbon while Logos and Bond use Torayca T700.E.UTS. That makes Bond heavier (in theory cause in practice logos and RB1000 are the heaviest with RB800 and Bond having almost the same weight) and more comfortable (RB1000 is by far the less comfortable).

RΒ1000, RΒ800 and Logos are full monocoques. Bond has a monocoque front triangle, 2 patented 'bonded' chainstays and a wishbone seatstay.
Every frame is 100% made in Italy of course. :D

Image

arthurf
Posts: 158
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 9:13 pm

by arthurf

kgt wrote:The geometry is not the same. RB800 has 15.2cm ht on a large which is actually quite larger than Bond's large. The Medium RB800 frame, which is much closer to Bond's large, has a 13.2 HT. (I wanted to get a RB800 at first but I had either to get a frame too large for me or have a tiny headset with 3cm of spacers.)


No, the medium Bond has a 132mm ht as does the RB0.8k and the large Bond has a 152mm ht as does the large RB8.0k. The main difference is in the top tube, the RB0.8k is longer than the Bond. Check out the geometry charts on Cipo's website and it clearly shows this. When I had my warranty disaster with my RB0.8k, the alternative I was offered was a Bond as the geometry was almost identical.

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kgt
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by kgt

I am saying the same thing about headtube lengths. The geometry is not identical though and it is not just the top tube. A rider is more 'streched' on a large RB800 than on a large bond.
That does not mean one cannot find a comfortable fit on both but this is not always the case. I have checked both fit wise and while the large bond was fine for me the large RB800 was too large.

vlastrada
Posts: 225
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:12 am
Location: uphill

by vlastrada

Hey kgt, absolutely stunning, ready to give us your test ride report? ;)

btw the Bond does not seem to have any real world weight penalty vs. the RB800...
My Small RB800 frame ~ 1,148g + 170g seat clamp + 340 fork (uncut)

(http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=125756)

....and actually lighter than my small RB1000 at 1,416g !

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=122745

You really make me want to afford a pair of LW Gipfeltrums...though I could settle for a pair of Meilesteins ;)
Any pics with high profile wheels, by any chance?

Cheers

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kgt
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by kgt

Not ready for a full review yet.
What I can say for the moment is that the frame is really stiff. It is also more comfortable than expected. It does not 'feel' comfortable (my Wilier 101 had that feeling from the first ride) but it seems it never gets tiring no matter the condition of the tarmac. A detailed review soon...
No high peofile wheelset picture by me but see this one:

Image

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kgt
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by kgt

Some better, less distorted pictures:

Image

Image

Image

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kgt
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by kgt

first review:

It's been a while since my first ride and I now have a better idea of my BOND as a ride. I have my previous Wilier Cento Uno as a main reference which was a lovely lovely frame.

First of all the quality of the carbon weave out of the mold is top. As I 've said before it is very close to a TIME frame's quality, maybe slightly better than a top Colnago, way better than most other carbon frames. Handmade in Italy is a statement made obvious on the carbon weave. I actually fell in love with the frame after seeing it on a big expo next to other renowned companies' offers. The CIPOLLINIs and TIMEs were standing out as carbon creations, miles ahead. So, the design and quality of the frame itself and its patented construction is a big plus.

There are some characteristics which are obvious from the first ride and others that you need some time to see. What is immediately obvious is its stifness. This frame is ultra stiff in a good way. Especially the bb386 junction and the massive tapered headtube/fork give you that feel. The frame reacts as a whole. It feels like one rigid piece of carbon on the tarmac. Nothing moves, rattles or deforms (except the garmin on my k-edge mount).

Although we are talking about a front monocoque triangle, two atomlink-'bonded' chainstays and a wishbone seatstay it is obvious that the bb junction is over engineered with multiple pieces of carbon 'interlocking'. This is not a cheap solution neither one that results in a light frame but it works. This stifness may give you a feeling that the frame is not that responsive. The truth is that it is responsive if it gets the right amount of 'feedback'. That means you have to push harder in order to make the frame 'wake up'. You give more you take more, without limits. You ride faster you feel better. So bigger or stronger riders will find it just great. Lighter of less powerful riders may need sometime in order to get used to it. It is a frame designed by Mario Cipollini... no doubt.

The geometry makes for a very stable frame. The top tube is little longer, the headtube a little shorter (not too short like the RB1000), the wheelbase a little streched. The frame does never feel nervous or twitchy. I agree with PEZ's review that it feels 'slower' on slow speeds but that comes in favor of a very cool and balanced ride on high speeds. I brake later and drive faster when going downhill, that's for sure. No hands riding is rather confident. It just tracks the road perfectly. Climbing is also a joy because the very stable platform lets you easily find a nice rythm. The harder you push, the more istant the acceleration. Again, it needs a considerable wattage in order to respond. Its reaction limits are higher than the usual.

In terms of comfort... During the first rides I had a feeling the frame was not comfortable. Cento Uno had a margic carpet ride, like it was 'floating' over the road. The BOND is not this case. You feel more the bumps and the relief of the road. It is not that forgiving. But... I have to admit that for some reason it never gets tiring, no matter how bad the tarmac is. Cento Uno is admitted as the golden section between stifness, responsiveness and comfort. I use the same wheels, tires, components, saddle on my BOND and not once did I feel more tired or 'beaten up'. So, although it feels less comfortable it is not. Many reviewers describe it as an all day ride and I totally agree. A friend of mine who replaced his C59 for a BOND admitted the Colnago was way more comfortable but way less stiff at the same time. He is maybe right. I guess BOND is a more race oriented frame. It is like an ultimate weapon made for athletes and not a joy ride for the weekend rider. It is a frame that will never make you ask for more. You may ask for less weight, of course, but this is a bombproof frame to keep for many years and not for a disposable plastic toy to use for a season or two.

There are two guys that I trust a lot since they are very competitive at a high level, very experienced riders and lucky enough (both are doctors btw) to have tested almost every high end frame available at the greek market during the last years. Top frames from Pinarello, Time, Cervelo, Cannondale, Look, DeRosa, Ridley, Colnago, Specialized, Wilier, Bianchi, BMC, Trek and Cipollini. Both described me Colnago C60 as the best frame period. Both found Cipollini (the RB1000 the first and the BOND the second) as another great choise. One of them considered Pinarello F8 among the top while the other regarded Cervelo RCa as the 'ultimate' ride. Hi end BMC, Wilier, Time, DeRosa and Bianchi were highly recommented. Almost any other frame was considered as 'a competitive ride but nothing really special'.

In conclusion the BOND feels like an absolute tool that you can never blame in case you are not fast enough. It is neither a pure climbing machine nor a century ride machine but it is a great all rounder. Nowadays, most carbon frames are great performers though. You don't choose a Cipollini in order to be as fast as Mario or win the Italian championship as YellowFluo team did on a BOND. You mainly choose a Cipollini because you appreciate the brand's profile, mentality and identity paired with a a great ride. Although I am just a hobbyist (no competition, not many kms, no powermeters etc.) I respect Cipollini's vision for a 100% made in Italy frame that stands out not only as a boutique item but also as a top level cycling tool. That's why I chose it and in every ride I do enjoy it more and more.

More impressions on time.

MrRouleur
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:04 pm

by MrRouleur

thanks for posting this. definitely a good read of your experience.

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PSM
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Location: Stockholm, The Arctic...

by PSM

Nice.

Hope it won't crack. :(

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eurperg
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Location: Finland

by eurperg

Lovely.

But in my opinion would look better a compact handlebar, ie Deda Zero100. With compact bars you could slam the stem and still keep the same hoods position... Top position would go lower but deal with it.

by Weenie


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