HOT: Active* forum members generally gain 5% discount at starbike.com store!
Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Blog NEW Articles FAQ Contact About




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:01 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Downtown Los Angeles, CA
What's your total budget? That will help since there's certain parts you can go Brand X while others not so much. For example, in my personal opinion, I don't think cheap and sub 1000g raceable wheelset goes together. I had the old Edge wheelset which was 968g with the DT 180 freehub shell, and that flexed significantly under my 67kg.

Also, for example, I think Nanogram Zero's on a cost/g basis are a waste of resources. Buy a chromoly set, Ti spindles (nanogram style) and the Ti butterflies for about $250.

Saddles: MCFK and Tune are expensive, but will be significantly more comfortable. Buy used. Tune Speedneedles often go for $200 or so.

Just for reference, my build was around $6K (I bought almost everything used) to get down to 6.2kg. My frame is heavy at 1,314, so subbing it with your 850g would be a reduction of 464g. My Quarq is heavy too, so 788g vs 533g for the SISL is -255g. Total difference is -719g, which puts you down to ~5.5kg. I don't think there's 500g worth of race-worthy parts that I can sub out of my build. My Fibulas are $1300 for a reason. The Reynolds Thirty Twos are "heavy" at 1,080g but they don't bend under out of the saddle efforts like the Edge did.

If you truly care about race worthiness, then cheap is probably not going to work. A race-worthy sub-5kg bike needs to be state of the art, and state of the art is EXPENSIVE.

_________________
Litespeed Siena: 6.21kg


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:44 pm
Posts: 10
aerobikewheels wrote:
http://www.filedropper.com/weightlisting


Might want to think about a google spreadsheet, or embed the table in the post to view it more easily.

aerobikewheels wrote:
the lightest solution without a star nut i could find was around 27 gram.


Check out the Extralite Ultrastar II expander or Tune Gum Gum. Not sure off the top of my head whether they fit your fork, but they're both around 10g.


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:28 pm 


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:57 am
Posts: 92
This will be a very interesting thread!

To build a sub-5kg bike, every gram counts. With a certain budget limit, it's more challenging but also rewarding to find the most cost-effective parts to squeeze out all those precious grams.

I'm inching towards my goal of sub-5kg bike, here's my most recent build list, which may be of some value to this thread:
(original post here:http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=124562)

Total weight including pedals and 1 bottle cage: 5.405kg
Image

Frame: FM066SL 58cm/BSA BB/UD matte - 940g(inc. FD brazed-on, RD hanger and cable stops)
Fork: Scott Addict LTD 1-1/8", steering column cut to 250mm, needs 1-1/2" to 1-1/8" adapter crown race - 297.7g(uncut: 313.5g)
Headset: mixed parts from various headsets - 78g
Expander plug: Roxycle - 15.0g(inc. 4.2g top cap & bolt)
Spacers: carbon, total 20mm - 9.1g

Shifters: Sram Rival(2009) 2x10 speed - 325g
Front derailleur: Shimano Dura-Ace FD-7900-F - 65g
Rear derailleur: Sram Red black edition - 147g(w/ original pulleys)
RD pulleys: Roth Shek carbon 11T - 9.5g/pair (Red pulleys=22.4g)

Cranks: Stronglight Pulsion compact ISIS drive/172.5mm - 319.8g(cranks only, without bolts)
Chainrings: Sram PowerGlide 48/34T - 48T:74.8g, 34T:27.8g
Chainring bolts: KCNC - 10.1g
Crank bolts: J&L hollow titanium M15x12L - 14.2g with washers
Bottom bracket: Chin-Haur CH-95 ISIS 68x108mm(steel axle, similar to American Classic ISIS BB) - 126.9g(plastic central sleeve removed)
Chain: KMC X11SL 106 links - 218.1g
Cassette: SEQ-Lite full aluminum 10-speed 11-27T - 109.1g(inc. lock ring)
Pedals: Crank Brothers Eggbeater 3Ti - 187.6g(w/ titanium end caps & heat shrink tubes around axles)

Cable housing: Aican Bungarus, brake 108.5cm, shift 123cm - 44.5g
Cables: Aican, brake 174cm, shift 323cm - brake cables 24g, shift cables 23g
Ferrules: various - 8g
Inline adjusting barrels: Jagwire Mini - 6g/pair

Handlebar: Equinox(Gigantex) HR068 400mm c-c, reach 80mm, drop 140mm - 172g
Stem: Uno ASA105 120mm/7∘/φ31.8 - 108.2g(w/ ti bolts)
Bar tape: Deda Traforato - tapes 22g(110cm x2 used), plugs 5g
Saddle: unbranded full carbon(Toupe S-Works clone) - 91.5g
Seatpost: Token TK9191(aluminum) 27.2x350mm - cut to 260mm: 128.6g(originally 146g)
Seatpost clamp: Token TK160Ti 31.8mm - 8.4g
Brake calipers: Mr.Control JULY-21 CNC, steel pivots - 195g(without brake pads, pad holder bolts replaced by ti bolts)
Brake pads: Corima cork - 8.2g/4 pads

Wheelset: (part specs as follows) - front 449g, rear 582g
Front hub: Bitex RAF10 20H - 66.1g
Rear hub: Bitex RAR9 24H/Shimano 10S freewheel body - 186.5g(half of the pawls removed, originally 190.0g)
Rims: Farsports FSL38-TM 38mm tubular 20/24H - 20H:290.8g, 24H:282.7
Spoke: CN Mac Aero360, front:272mm x20, rear:269mm x12 / 274mm x12 - 180.5g
Nipples: CN ACC144 - 17.1g
Nipple washers: (comes with Farsports rims) - 4.9g

Tubular tires: Challenge Criteirum 300TPI, 22mm - 245.4g + 246.7g
Tire cement: Vittoria Mastik'One - 28g(4 layers of glue for each wheel)
Valve extender: Token TF20 20mm - 2.2g/pair
Skewers: J&L titanium bolt-on - 28.1g(without springs)

Chain catcher: Mr.Control - 7g
Bottle cage: Hylix carbon - 15.6g
Bottle cage bolts: aluminum M5x15L - 5.0g/4 bolts

Lately I've built a low-profile front wheel to evaluate. The wheel alone saves 173g and I'm glad there's no sensation of lacking stiffness for me.
Image
Part spec as follows:
Front hub: M5 straight-pull 16H - 36.2g
Rim: Farsports FSL20-TM 20mm tubular - 240.0g
Spokes: CN Mac Aero424 straight-pull, 299mm x16 - 81.5g
Nipples: CN ACC144 - 6.0g
Nipple washers: Sapim HM nipple washer - 3.0g
Tubular tire: Tufo Elite Jet<160g, 20mm - 156.0g

There are also some parts which are already in my hoard but haven't been put into use:
.Bebop BBP-11 pedals with Ward titanium axles: 150.7g (saves 37g)
.New Red 2x10 shifters(2012): 287.0g (saves 38g)
.Ciamillo GSL Micro brakes: calipers, pad holders and hardware 160.2g (saves 35g)
.Extralite UltraStar2 expander: 6.8g (saves 4g)
.Extralite cassette lock ring: 3.7g (saves 2.3g)
.Extralite UltraRear SR rear hub 24H: 156.0g
.Nextie 20mm tubular rim(23mm wide) 24H for rear wheel: 239.5g
.Tufo S3 Lite<215g 21mm: 212.7g
(20mm rear wheel should save around 90~100g)

And finally some parts I intend to buy this year:
.FSA SL headset bearings: 1-1/8" upper saves 8.7g, 1.5" lower saves 7.7g
.Power Cordz shift cables: saves around 18g
.POP(Parts of Passion) or Extralite delrin headset spacers: saves 3~4g
.Carbonice Flotte Lotte seatpost 27.2x250mm: saves 45g
.Berk carbon saddle: saves 25g

To each his own... I don't ride for racing, my pedaling power is nondescript, and my body weight is in the neighborhood of 60kg. Therefore I don't prioritize stiffness or durability when considering light weight parts. Some of my part choice are out of vogue or unorthodox, like ISIS BB and crankset, Eggbeater pedals, 48-34T chain rings and alu cassette, but I think they're adequate for my use.


Last edited by wrcompositi on Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:00 pm
Posts: 24
Quote:
Might want to think about a google spreadsheet, or embed the table in the post to view it more easily.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bqPtg23F9ViNW-_sCPVqg7E2OIJjKtgrMP6qSIl15j4/edit?usp=sharing

Quote:
Check out the Extralite Ultrastar II expander or Tune Gum Gum. Not sure off the top of my head whether they fit your fork, but they're both around 10g.

Thanks usefull tip

@wrccompositi
Some very useful tips, thanks

Wich spoke washers do you use for carbon rims, sapims?
The spoke choice is interesting. I have used CN spokes, but the more heavy ones. they seemed strong and fine, to be honest i didnt even know they offered 3,5gram spokes, are you happy with them?

Also can you tell me where you got your titanium bolts?

For the M5 front hub,
Are they any good, i never heard of them before. Do they run smooth?
I don't think they will be an option for this build. but maybe for a wheel in my showroom with 16 2,6gram Ti spokes and a weight limit arund 75kg to just show what is possible. And see the amazed faces of customers who lift them.

Also the tires? tufo Elite Jet, how are they? to be honest i think i am looking for a 23mm tire, as it needs to be raceable.

Also you use some replacement and small parts which seem intresting to me, never tought of saving weight with a casette lockring before ;) but they are defenitely interesting for me.

@RyanH
Quote:
cheap is probably not going to work

I really hope i can prove you wrong,

Please note that the parts which affect handling and ride quality (frame, crankset, fork, stem, handlebar) are not the lightest available (except crank), but race worthy for sure. The seatpost is at 135Gram also not the lightest, doesnt come with a weight limit. so i believe it should be a race worthy bike.

For the saddle, i have a 90g carbon saddle, i don't use it currently, as i have a 200gram+ prologo saddle (please don't ban me from this forum for that). I don't think you can say one carbon saddle is more comfortable than another. as this differs for people.
I don't think any carbon saddle is a comfortable choice, except if they are custom made to fit your sitbones. And spending a huge amount for a saddle which will be mainly there for in the showroom and cool looks. For the future i will look for a lightweight saddle wich is comfy for me to replace it. but its a personal thing, so for now i think i will go with the 90gram saddle i currently have laying around somewhere. i will look into used saddles, maybe a bargain will come along.


If you look at the spreadsheet i am already close to the 5Kg, but just the details count i think.

With a sram red cassette, front and rear derailleur and shifters, kmc chain. they all seems race worthy to me.

About the wheels. one of my clients races elite, and just won a sprint race yesterday on 24/38 tubular wheels and pillar psr 1420 spokes (verry similar to CX-ray). 1070 gram set. He is 80KG and was able to break a bianchi oltre rear fork during a sprint, probably faulty manufacturing as 6 of the other teambikes also had problems and broke, all different places. I think for wheels, a good evenly and high tensioned wheel is as important as used components.

Wheel is spoked at 130KGF front and 145KGD rear (driveside).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:57 am
Posts: 92
aerobikewheels wrote:

Wich spoke washers do you use for carbon rims, sapims?
The spoke choice is interesting. I have used CN spokes, but the more heavy ones. they seemed strong and fine, to be honest i didnt even know they offered 3,5gram spokes, are you happy with them?

Also can you tell me where you got your titanium bolts?

For the M5 front hub,
Are they any good, i never heard of them before. Do they run smooth?
I don't think they will be an option for this build. but maybe for a wheel in my showroom with 16 2,6gram Ti spokes and a weight limit arund 75kg to just show what is possible. And see the amazed faces of customers who lift them.

Also the tires? tufo Elite Jet, how are they? to be honest i think i am looking for a 23mm tire, as it needs to be raceable.

Also you use some replacement and small parts which seem intresting to me, never tought of saving weight with a casette lockring before ;) but they are defenitely interesting for me.



The nipple washers are "Sapim HM PolyAx". These washers are concave so nipples can pivot more freely compared to flat washers. I bought them from bikehubstore.com .

CN Aero360 is only slightly thinner than Aero424, CX-Ray, PSR1420.. etc. , the thickness of flat section measures around 0.9mm, thinner than Aero424 by 0.1mm. The actual weights of my Aero360 spokes are: 4.03g/272mm(avg of 20), 4.08g/274mm(avg of 12), 4.26g/269mm(avg of 12, these have longer round sections thus are the heaviest of the three lengths), so their weights are comparable to Sapim Super Spoke or Pillar Mega Lite SS according to Madcow's list:http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127069. In use I can't find fault with these spokes, stiffness is enough for me as long as the hub flanges are wide apart, but others' opinions may vary. I will still use them on my next wheel build, which is a low-profile rear wheel.

I've considered Pillar's ti spokes, the lightest X-TRA Lite Ti is only US$4 apiece quoted by the distributor of Taiwan(where I live), and they can sell in small quantity. Sadly X-TRA Lite Ti must use 2.3mm nipples, which are heavier and require larger rim holes.

As for titanium bolts, they are easy to source from online dealers here in Taiwan. When looking for ti and alu bolts, many would suggest Toronto Cycle. R2 bike also has a wide selection of bolts.

I would put the M5 hub in "special event" category. Firstly, the 688 bearings are tiny so one should consider them as consumables. I've just started to use the front wheel, so can't attest to the reliability of M5 hub, but I wouldn't mind changing the bearings if needed, which is not a hard task per se. The design of M5 straight-pull hub is sound, I especially like the wide spoke stance, but the manufacturing quality of my hub is problematic. I encountered many problems when lacing this hub:
- One side of holes have too many blurs to prevent spokes from going through. I had to trim and enlarge the holes.
- The axle is not properly bored, there's a narrow section just in the middle, which cause the skewer rod to stuck in the axle. I had to use a drill bit and a reamer to fix the axle.
- The alignment of bearing bores and the spacing between them are a far cry from accurate. If the bearings are pushed all the way to the bottom, they're completely seized even under clamping tension of a skewer. I had to adjust the depth of bearings by trail and error to make them run normally, which was quite a torment! There's resistance at certain angle when rotating the axle, so the bearing alignment is still not perfect. After all these ordeals the hub is working okay-ish so far, but the long term viability remains to be seen. The bottom line is, I won't buy M5 hub again :cry:

As I said, I haven't used the front wheel much, but the Tufo's tread seems more wear resistant than Challenge or Vittoria. The Elite Jet<160g is actually 21mm when inflated. I don't have a power meter so can't say the Tufo is faster or slower, and it feels just slightly more chattering than the Challenge I previously used. Both are inflated to 80~85psi.

Hope these help and your project can soon be realized. :beerchug:


Last edited by wrcompositi on Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 8:32 am
Posts: 410
Location: Adelaide, Australia
aerobikewheels wrote:


this spreadsheet is set to private btw.

Also, aren't those spoke tensions a little on the high side?

_________________
I'm writing the new weight weenies blog. Hope you like it :)

My SwiftCarbon Ultravox


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:00 pm
Posts: 24
Oh, i will make it public, and to make it even more easy i will post my updated list here later today, With some corrected values:

wrcompositi wrote:
Also, aren't those spoke tensions a little on the high side?

They are, But i work to the demand of the rider. And give them the option for once, after using the wheel for a while to check the wheel, and this one preferred a higher tension. And to be honest, For me i like a bike and wheels as stiff at possible, it gives me more trust in cornering, i think it is a personal choice.

For technical limitations, The rim manufacturer claims that spokes will fail before the rim. So far, none have failed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:00 pm
Posts: 24
Hereby the list so far:
As much as possible i have used real weights, note that frame is slightly heavier, this due to a bigger size and it now includes all parts attached to the frame.

- Frame:
906 Grams (included rear and front hanger + and seatpost clamp)
Finish: Raw Carbon (might be going for glossy for 30Gram added weight if possible)

- Fork:
357 Grams
Finish: Raw Carbon (Might be going for glossy for 17Gram added weight if possible)

- Fork Shortened
about -20 Grams weightsaving

- Seatpost "Brand X"
127
127 Gram (Gloss, raw carbon not an option)

- Saddle
90 Grams Carbon (ebay)

- Stem "Ritchey WCS260 with titanium bolts"
97 Grams
http://fairwheelbikes.com/c/forums/topi ... -review-3/
Please note that the stem scores average in deflection, and better than the lightest option available, Also note that this is the only lightweight stem wich does not use titanium bolts, with titanium bolts this is the second lightest stem available and it will also climb in the stiffness to weight ratio. Given the low price, i can't think of a better choice.

- Handlebar "Brand X"
182 Grams
Already in stock, I will contact the manufacturer for a raw carbon version, except for the sandpaper coating it has on the places were the stem and shifters attach, don't see the use of protective painting if there is already bar tape. So maybe 5 grams extra to save here.

- Bar Tape "Deda?"
40 Grams
Might not be deda, one of the lighter bar tapes, but has to provide some comfort and grip.

- Headset "1 1/2 - 1 1/8 integr.???"
60 Grams?
I can't find any headset weight comparisson. Any suggestions are welcome. With the frame they will supply a headset, this one is 78 Grams, i think there should be some weightsavings possible here.

- Top Cap "Torontocycles"
5 Grams including bolts


- Spacers "Point One Racing Nano Torontocycles"
2.2 Grams 2x5mm

- Expander "Extralite UltraStar 2 Expander"
6.9 Grams
I might be going for the slightly heavier Mcfk expander, it can't see how this one will grip.
http://www.starbike.com/en/extralite-ultrastar-2-expander/
http://www.starbike.com/en/mcfk-expander/

- Crankset "Cannondale Sisl2"
484 Grams
Necessary to reach the 5Kg, stunningly beautifull as this part is expensive, compared to the weightsaving it is worth it.

- Bottom Bracket "BB30 cannondale included"
57 Grams
COuldnt find actual weight, but all BB30 cranks seem to be around this weight, if it is heavier ill just buy one wich is 57 grams.

- Shifters "Sram Red"
280 Grams
Not as good or beautifull as my beloved campagnolo, but nothing can compare to campa. but its cheaper and lighter. So for this build the right choice

- Front Derailleur "Sram red"
76 Grams

- Rear Derailleur "Sram Red"
143 Grams

- Shifter Cables "Power Cordz Swift or alternative"
34.2 Grams
Saving weight on the cables is necessary as each gram counts, Any experience is welcome, so far i just picked one of the lightest out there.

- Chain "KMC 11SL"
230 Grams (110 links)
Already using this chain, As i see the chain as a consumable part, it can't be too expensive

- Brakes "Mr. Control / Planet X with titanium brakpad bolt upgrade"
195 Grams/set
Already using those brake's and i am really happy with them.

- Brakepads "Swiss stop black prince"
0 Grams (brakes are weight including pads, i assume pads will weight about the same)
Seems to be the best out there, and i am using them already on my TT and Race bike, Don't Change a winning team.

- Brake Cables "Power Cordz swift"
36.6Grams
I have to admit, it is kinda scary to give up my reliable steel braking cables, it is a thing im not completely sure about. Any testing of these cables would be fine, if i think steel is safer, ill use a set with steel or titanium inner cables and ill have to shave off the grams somewhere else.

- Rim front "Aero 20height*23mmwidth tubular, raw carbon"
235 Gram's

- Spokes front "Sapim CX-superspoke"
76 Grams (3,8Gram each 20pcs)
Hope they make a stiff enough wheel, if not ill replace them with CX-Ray's

- Nipples "Sapim, included with spokes"
6.4 Grams

- Hub front "Bitex Rar 9 Ceramic bearings"
65 Grams
As the small bearings worry me a little bit. Ceramic shold be more dureable and reviews seems fine. I have spoked 1 Wheel with those bearings before and i haven't heared complaints from the customer.

- Quick Release front "Titanium"
20 Grams
Not as easy to use and fast to switch as conventional steel ones, i will probably replace those while racing. I already have them in stock.

- Rim rear "Aero 20height*23mmwidth tubular, raw carbon"
235 Grams
Maybe 38 would be a better choice for racing, but i already have a set of 38 tubes, and as this is a lightweight build.

- Spokes Rear "Sapim CX-Super & CX-Ray"
100,8 Grams (3.8 / 4.6 Gram/pcs)
Stronger spokes were needed. I've seen this theory of using different spokes for drive and none drive side, and i am looking forward to test this.

- Nipples Rear "Sapim"
7,68 Grams

- Hub Rear "Bitex Raf 10 ceramic"
192 Grams

- Quick Release rear "Titanium"
23 Grams

- Tyre "Tufo Elite jet"
312 Grams (2x156 Grams)
As i prefer 23mm wide tire, this one is claimed 20 but measured 21, this option is much lighter, If ill be able to shave some extra weight of by tuning parts, ill replace these for heavier more puncture resistance s3 tires from Tufo.

- Glue tubular
25 Grams

- Cassette "Sram Red 11-25"
151 Grams
The lightest out there without compromising performance, Titanium isnt any lighter, and aluminum cassettes wich are lighter are way less dureable.

- Pedals "Speedplay zero with Ti bolts & spindle's"
155 Grams (probably lighter because ill replace also bolts)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=68720

- Bottle Cage's "Brand X"
36 Grams
Pictures will follow soon, i know i can get a few grams lighter, but these one keep bidons tight over the cobbles, already using them.

- Numberplate Holder "Brand X"
6 Grams
Carbon numberplate holder, might replace clamp bolt for titanium, just for the extra gram i can save.

TOTAL WEIGHT: 5041Grams

I am not there yet, but i am close, i have used realistic weights, and didn't seem to forget any parts.

Now the second part of weightsaving, The tuning.

First ill replace, were possible Steel for titanium bolts.
Think ill buy a whole bunch at torontocycles,

Also for savings like derailleur wheels, and replacement parts of titanium. I have no experience with this.
I hope 160 Grams of extra weight savings are possible. might be a little optimistic.

Feel free to shoot at the configuration made above, and any tips for replacement parts are welcome


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:01 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Downtown Los Angeles, CA
The Extralite expander works very well. You can get a good amount of compression on it without it slipping. It's basically three or four wedges that expand when you tighten with the large allen key. Once it's wedged in the fork, you put your top cap in and set load like normal. Have had mine for over two years and never had mine slip.

Who makes those rims? I thought only Ax was making sub 250g rims these days. My old Edge's were around that weight, but that was back in 2010.

_________________
Litespeed Siena: 6.21kg


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:00 pm
Posts: 24
Oke, thanks, i was worried about the expander as it does not have the common grip profile.

For the rims, who makes them?. As I've told before it is a factory which also makes frames for a brand which rode Tdf this year. And MoQ starts at 100pcs. I've also seen how they test their products, and they all pass far above EN standard. As their own testing uses higher stresses and is more comprehensive. As said before, They only supply to companies not to consumers and i cannot tell you for which brands they produce or the name of the company.

I don't think they are the only ones which sell sub 250 gram rims tough. I've done lots of comparison and there are more companies, Ax lightness is in terms of weight with 215Gram's is more unique in that point, i think farsport had a 215 gram tubular, but if you mail them, they say that they don't make it anymore (probably a safety issue)


Last edited by aerobikewheels on Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:57 am
Posts: 92
Eager to see the frame in raw finish, no clear coat, that's the spirit of true WWism! :thumbup:

I see you may be curious about the weight of headset parts, FYI:
(actual weight on my scale)
  • bearing:
    FSA 1-1/8" upper bearing, regular steel (complete headset: Orbit CE Plus/No.8B Plus) - φ41.8xφ30.9xH8,45∘x45∘ (bearing no. TH-870E-RS/MR121) - 22.1~22.4g
    FSA 1-1/8" upper bearing, "SL series" - φ41.8xφ30.5xH8,45∘x45∘ (bearing no. TH-870R/MR042R) - 14.4~14.7g
    Neco 1-1/8" upper bearing (complete headset: H373) - φ41.8xφ30.2xH7,45∘x45∘ - 23g(rounded)
    Neco 1.5" lower bearing (complete headset: H373)- φ52xφ40xH8,45∘x45∘ - 35g(rounded)
    VP 1.5" lower bearing(MH-P16) - φ52xφ40xH7,45∘x45∘ - 31g(rounded)
    FSA 1.5" lower bearing, "SL series" - φ51.8xφ40xH8,36∘x45∘ (bearing no. TH-073R/MR110R) - 21.9~22.1g
  • top cone cover:
    FSA 8.7mm carbon (from Orbit CE Plus/No.8B Plus) - 6.9g
    Cyfac by Stronglight 15mm carbon - 13g(rounded)
    Neco H373 9mm aluminum - 12g(rounded)
  • compression ring:
    FSA Orbit CE Plus - 3.3g
    Neco H373 - 2g(rounded)
  • crown race(1.5", 45∘):
    Neco H373 (aluminum) - 7g(rounded)

Regarding the seatpost, if it's the 0-offset type, there are some places to save weight. You can replace the original parts with a carbon cradle(Mcfk, Smud or J&L from ebay), lighter yokes(POP, KCNC, J&L) and ti bolts.
If your "Brand X" seatpost is 350mm long and weighs only 127g, that's a very good weight. To my knowledge, other than THM, AX-lightness... etc. only Woodman's carbon seatpost is that light.

aerobikewheels wrote:
I don't think they are the only ones which sell sub 250 gram rims tough. I've done lots of comparison and there are more companies, Ax lightness is in terms of weight with 215Gram's.


I have two 20mm tubular rims from China, the Farsports' one is 240.0g(20mm wide) and the Nextie's is 239.6g(23mm wide).
I haven't built the Nextie rim, but its finish quality is much better than the Farsports. I can't afford the luxuries of Enve or Ax, therefore no comparison can be made.
Here's the Nextie rim on scale:
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:56 pm
Posts: 719
aerobikewheels wrote:
Oke, thanks, i was worried about the expander as it does not have the common grip profile.


I have an Extralite expander as well, and it works great. No issues. I used a tiny bit of carbon paste on the outside of it to give it some extra grip.

Also, I disagree that aluminum cassettes aren't durable. Sure, they won't last as long as an SRAM cassette, but they do last a few thousand miles. I have a Recon 11-23 and the thing is only 89g. It's been great, and it's less than $200, so replacing it doesn't hurt the wallet. If you're going for a super light build, I recommend the Recon.

_________________
6.24kg CAAD10


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:00 pm
Posts: 24
I seriously am considering recon casettes, but if the company wich sells them already states "race day" and the below warnings, that worries me a little bit.

Quote:
"In the never ending quest to save weight, I stumbled across the Recon 11-speed machined aluminum cassettes. Sold in the US through Fair Wheel Bikes, they come with three warnings: One, performance isn’t going to be quite as polished as a high end Shimano cluster. Two, it won’t be as durable. And three, shift gently, lest you snap a tooth off.

Jason at Fair Wheel reiterated these via email, then sent along a black 11-28 cassette for testing. Claimed weight is 124g, but ours came in at just 120 grams… "

http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/02/06/first-impressions-120g-recon-race-day-11-speed-aluminum-road-cassette/

Even if the wear is allright, and it is a tube. I can throw the whole thing away if i snap of a tooth, As a cassette which is race ready should be able to shift at any given time.
So that still worries me about the recon.

For the weight, you claim 89 grams? fairwheelbikes claims a little heavier tough.

But the thing is, And yeah i am going to throw in a jeremy clarkson quote into a bicycle/engeneering forum (might be going to hell for that).
“If I sawed my leg off I’d weigh much less than I do now but I wouldn’t actually function any more, I’d keep falling over.”

I just don't know if aluminum is the right material for a casette, But i will look more into the recon cassette, it will be a weightsaving i can use. Because one thing is for sure, if i hang the bike on the scale, i want the first digit to be a 4.

Same thing for the powercordz, I don't like the fact that they are not re-usable, and don't know if it is the right material for the job, especially for brakes, to risk your life downhill for 15 grams. I'd rather find the weightsaving somewere else, But i also understand compromises need to be made. I'll seriously consider the recon.

@wrcompositi,
Thanks for the usefull imput yet again.

For the mr. control parts, do you have a contact for me wich speaks english? where i can buy from?

The rim you pictured, is that matt, or also raw finish?

For the frame, It will probably for 70% raw carbon, but i will put glossy finish on some places for protection.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:00 pm
Posts: 24
Some upgrades,

For the painting it will be partly raw carbon, partly custom paint. But i will consider weight into the way it is painted, Only small lines. And ud gloss on some places to protect from the chain and gravel.

Colors:
Frame will be mainly black (carbon) All tuning alloy bolts and parts will be anodized orange (yup, i am dutch). All Ti bolts wont be anodized. For any bolts which i can use both alu and ti but ti will be more dureable/stronger i will go for Ti.

Further:
Brake cables:
I am not going power cordz here, too risky.

For Outer cables (brake), i am thinking of alligator super light they claim to be 10 grams per meter and it is affordable. Can't find too much experience. But basically they use glassfiber instead of steel cabling

http://www.xcracer.com/shop/viewproduct ... ductid=338

For outer cables (shift), i think i will choose the mini alligator i-links.
For inner cables i will give the powercordz a try, as they arent too expensive to replace.

For bolt and part tuning, i will replace bolts and parts for:
- Frame
- Stem
- Front derailleur
- Rear derailleur
- shifters (only clamp bolt)
- brakes (only brake pad bolts)
- cassette (lock ring)
- nipples (just for color)
- Seatpost (if the bolts are steel)
- Pedals

I hope i can save some precious grams off with this.

For speedplay pedals, i also want to replace the steel bowties, but not for aluminum (dureability reasons) but titanium. But can't find those anywhere.
Any tips. With replacing bolts for Ti and bowties also, i should come very close to the 135grams. instead of 155 (only spindle replaceament).

I hope i will end up by an estimated weight of 4900 Grams, This way, if components come in heavier i am sure i will keep it within the 5Kg's.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:56 pm
Posts: 719
aerobikewheels wrote:
I seriously am considering recon casettes, but if the company wich sells them already states "race day" and the below warnings, that worries me a little bit.

Quote:
"In the never ending quest to save weight, I stumbled across the Recon 11-speed machined aluminum cassettes. Sold in the US through Fair Wheel Bikes, they come with three warnings: One, performance isn’t going to be quite as polished as a high end Shimano cluster. Two, it won’t be as durable. And three, shift gently, lest you snap a tooth off.

Jason at Fair Wheel reiterated these via email, then sent along a black 11-28 cassette for testing. Claimed weight is 124g, but ours came in at just 120 grams… "

http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/02/06/first-impressions-120g-recon-race-day-11-speed-aluminum-road-cassette/

Even if the wear is allright, and it is a tube. I can throw the whole thing away if i snap of a tooth, As a cassette which is race ready should be able to shift at any given time.
So that still worries me about the recon.

For the weight, you claim 89 grams? fairwheelbikes claims a little heavier tough.

But the thing is, And yeah i am going to throw in a jeremy clarkson quote into a bicycle/engeneering forum (might be going to hell for that).
“If I sawed my leg off I’d weigh much less than I do now but I wouldn’t actually function any more, I’d keep falling over.”

I just don't know if aluminum is the right material for a casette, But i will look more into the recon cassette, it will be a weightsaving i can use. Because one thing is for sure, if i hang the bike on the scale, i want the first digit to be a 4.

Same thing for the powercordz, I don't like the fact that they are not re-usable, and don't know if it is the right material for the job, especially for brakes, to risk your life downhill for 15 grams. I'd rather find the weightsaving somewere else, But i also understand compromises need to be made. I'll seriously consider the recon.


Recon and Fairwheel say race day because if you use it for everyday riding it will not last as long. I'm not gentle on mine at all, and I've even had it skip when I've miss a shift, and I don't see any wear or damage on mine yet. I check it every week. There is also a thread on here, that I can't find at the moment, in which someone gave periodic updates on the life of the cassette. He logged around 5,000 miles before he started to see wear and reduced performance. I only rider around 50 miles a week, so it will be a while before I get to that point. Not sure how often you will be riding, so that can be a factor for you. But I do doubt that the Recon can be an injury risk. Besides, if they can make airplanes out of aluminum, I'm sure that it's more than fine for bike cassettes. The only issue is durability, but so what. It's half the price of a SRAM Red cassette, and half the weight. Just replace it when it wears out.

As for weight, here is mine on a scale.

Image

_________________
6.24kg CAAD10


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:04 pm 


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bfno and 24 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Giant TCR Advanced SL 1 (parts opinions needed!)

in Introduce Yourself / Gallery - Please use metric weights.

woz9683

4

1702

Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:44 am

KWalker View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Advice/reviews on frames needed.

in Road

Jdrsvin

0

157

Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:23 pm

Jdrsvin View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Cannondale Supersix EVO Dura Ace - advice needed

[ Go to page: 1, 2 ]

in Road

MikeC

25

1566

Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:17 pm

PuroScattista View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. new work commute -- ideas + advice needed

in Training

dvincere

14

775

Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:45 pm

mattr View the latest post


It is currently Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:34 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Advertising   –  FAQ   –  Contact   –  Convert   –  About

© Weight Weenies 2000-2013
hosted by starbike.com


How to get rid of these ads? Just register!


Powered by phpBB