Colnago Dream B-Stay Project

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Calnago
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by Calnago

SWijland wrote:They did not resolve it, unfortunately. Not for existing frames anyway.

I believe the problem arose because they bonded the aluminium dropouts to the carbon without using anything in between, which supposedly is a perfect basis for galvanic corrosion. Although corrosion on aluminium itself is not something you should worry about (it stops as soon as the entire surface is corroded), the problem is that the corroded surface is bigger compared to non-corroded aluminium. As a result of this the carbon will crack ones the corrosion becomes bad enough.


That Colnago did not resolve it makes no sense to me. Current C59's have aluminum dropouts in the forks. Other bikes as well. We're talking almost 20 years later since the first C40's. To say they haven't resolved it for existing frames seems strange, especially since you seem to imply the problem arose from bonding the aluminum dropouts to carbon without using anything in between. If you know that, I'm sure Colnago does too, and if they didn't back then I'm sure they do now. How are current aluminium shelled bottom brackets bonded to carbon these days, not just with Colnagos, but any frame? The same issue should result there right? What is it that goes between the aluminum and carbon to bond it so that it doesn't corrode. I don't believe there is any problem with corrosion on current frames, so I would say if this was a known issue it was in fact resolved long ago, but I'm guessing. For history's sake and furthering my own knowledge I certainly would like to know more about the fabled C40 bonding failures as I have friends with C40s. Also, I used to have a C40 HP B-stay and never noticed anything amiss with it. I sold it when I ventured into C50 land and still haven't had a single problem along these lines.
I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about Colnagos and their construction, but this is an area I really don't know much about but would like to learn what the real story is once and for all. So if anybody has more info I would love to hear it, maybe via PM so as not to further hijack @Ozrider's thread any further.

@Ozrider: If possible could you perhaps post a closeup photo of the dropout area? It does look corroded in the photo, but maybe a sanding down through the oxidized layer and coating it with some protectant might help stop any further corrosion. Looking forward to the build.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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SWijland
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by SWijland

With existing frames I meant they didn't warranty the frames that had the corrosion problems. Obviously they have fixed the problem on modern frames.

by Weenie


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Calnago
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by Calnago

Ah yes, that makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying. And yes, I do think it has something to do with proper treatment of surfaces before bonding to each other. Since the C40 is still one of the most favored frames of that era, I feel I should know a little bit more about this problem and its resolution than I do. Thanks for getting me a step closer.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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SalsaLover
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by SalsaLover

As Calnago says we haven't seen that galvanic corrosion on other carbon/alu bonds like the fork dropouts or bottom brackets or even the headset inserts for example.

Only on the rear dropouts, that's interesting,

I think it had more to do with the hub axel or the hub grease than anything else
Hucken The Fard Up !
Colnagos : C50 ST01 - Master 30th AD10 - C40 Mapei WC

Ozrider
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by Ozrider

I'm having the frame checked for integrity. The company I used to paint my Reynolds specialises in carbon repair.
The friend I got the frame from has an impressive collection of Colnago, Merckx, etc totalling over 30 bikes, and has been in the bike industry about 20 years. He had a good look at the frame and reckons the dropouts and joints are sound. It looks like it is just paint peeled off the dropout. The dropouts themselves look to be in good condition and not corroded or damaged. However as I have no real knowledge about aluminium oxidation and frame bonding, I will have it checked by people who specialise in carbon repair.
SWijland - Thanks for the heads up on the potential problem. It's great to know there are guys with the right experience on this forum.


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Last edited by Ozrider on Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ozrider - Western Australia
Parlee Z5 XL (6055g/13.32lbs) Trek Madone 5.9 (7052-7500g)Jonesman Columbus Spirit (8680g)
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Calnago
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by Calnago

SalsaLover wrote:As Calnago says we haven't seen that galvanic corrosion on other carbon/alu bonds like the fork dropouts or bottom brackets or even the headset inserts for example.

Only on the rear dropouts, that's interesting,

I think it had more to do with the hub axel or the hub grease than anything else


It's not the hub/axle. This was an issue, no denying that. But remember, the C40 was really a successful early carbon offering. Bonding different tubes together had often been problematic in those years, not just for colnago but others as well. I'd just like to know more about it, like how long was it an issue, etc... 1 year, 2 years, etc? and which years? Good stuff to know.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Ozrider
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by Ozrider

If anyone else has any history on this I
am interested in knowing more about this


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Ozrider - Western Australia
Parlee Z5 XL (6055g/13.32lbs) Trek Madone 5.9 (7052-7500g)Jonesman Columbus Spirit (8680g)
Chase your dreams - it's only impossible until it's done

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Rumsas
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by Rumsas

First of all, congrats on that beast of a frame.
Regarding the corrosion issues, i have owned 3 c40's and have experienced the corrosion first hand.
Only the early models c40 corroded on the rear drop outs, aaand the cable stops.
I really don't think it has anything to do with bonding, but everything to do with surface treatment on the alloy itself.
It seems like the later c40 drop outs was covered in thick paint, while the older ones was somehow anodized??
Only thing to do, is to scrape of all the corrosion, and see how much alloy is left. If it looks safe to ride after all the loose corrosion is gone, just paint it with some strong paint, and a lot of clear coat. And it will be good for a long time.

Ozrider
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Location: Perth, Western Australia

by Ozrider

@ Rumsas - thanks for the info. The alloy is not corroded at all. It is very solid. The paint had peeled so I scraped the rest back. Just for safety sake I will still have it checked by a carbon repair expert, who will paint the dropouts and touch up a few scratches.
I think am going to go ahead and build this up in the new year.
As I gave carbon and steel, I really want an alloy frame and eventually a Ti frame as well.
I think this Colnago looks so much better than a CAAD 10 or Allez, and that paint job is certainly quite rare.

A link to the painter who will check and repaint the dropouts and touch up a few scratches
http://www.cyclecolor.com.au/#!restorations/c161y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And a review in cyclingtips.com.au
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/03/camer ... o-devotee/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



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Ozrider - Western Australia
Parlee Z5 XL (6055g/13.32lbs) Trek Madone 5.9 (7052-7500g)Jonesman Columbus Spirit (8680g)
Chase your dreams - it's only impossible until it's done

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Rumsas
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by Rumsas

Sounds like a good solution.
Looking forward to seeing this bike done.

tigoose
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Location: Mal Born, Oz.

by tigoose

any progress on the frame inspection?
i'm looking at building a nos Fondriest 7020 alum. frame so looking forward to this.

Ozrider
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by Ozrider

The frame seems to be sound, I will have the dropouts painted and some scratches airbrushed. Time to start searching for parts to build it up.





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Ozrider - Western Australia
Parlee Z5 XL (6055g/13.32lbs) Trek Madone 5.9 (7052-7500g)Jonesman Columbus Spirit (8680g)
Chase your dreams - it's only impossible until it's done

Ozrider
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by Ozrider

Time to start collecting parts.
I'm thinking of a Chris King headset in Blue, Mango or Black sotto voce. Any thought or suggestions?

Image

For a fork I am thinking of a Columbus Minimal, to tie in with the Columbus Airplane tubing, and the Carbon Fibre weave used on the seat stays.

Groupset - I will probably go with Campagnolo Record.

Saddle is a San Marco Regale which I'm having custom covered by Busyman with matching bar tape.
Ozrider - Western Australia
Parlee Z5 XL (6055g/13.32lbs) Trek Madone 5.9 (7052-7500g)Jonesman Columbus Spirit (8680g)
Chase your dreams - it's only impossible until it's done

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kgt
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by kgt

I suggest a Campagnolo Record headset and definitely a Colnago carbon fork.

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eurperg
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by eurperg

A curved fork like Columbus Minimal will not look good. Tusk would be better. (It looks a lot like Colnago Street Carbon)

Image Image

by Weenie


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