Third Time's a Charm: Litespeed T3

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KarlC
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by KarlC

Ryan, how would you compare the ride quality of the Bora 50s to the Zipp 404 and some of the other wheels you have had ?

I ask because when comparing my Zipp 404 Firecrest Tubulars to my Reynolds Aero 58 / 72 Tubulars I like the Reynolds better in every way except for the ride quality. The Reynolds ride is harsher, I have has to lower my air pressure 5 -10 PSI to get the same smooth ride as I had with the Zipps.

RyanH
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by RyanH

I'll have to report back later since I just glued them up yesterday. While I didn't have the aero 58s, I found my FortySix's much harsher than the 404s. It won't be a truly fair comparison since the Boras are on 25mm rubber. I can say that the cornering feel of the Bora 35s is superior to every other wheel I've had due to the wider rim bed that mates perfectly to the Veloflex Roubaix. I suspect the 50s will be similar since the increase in depth is more or less a carbon faring. It's super thin in most places which is probably why the weight is so close to the 35s.
Strava
Current Stable. The Snob Machine
The Ex's. LS Siena: 6.21kg | Parlee Z5 SLi: 5.9kg | LS Xicon: 5.76kg | C59: 5.7kg | Cervelo R5ca: 5.09kg | Fuji Altamira SE - 6.2kg | Scott Foil - 6.2kg | Evo - 5.18kg | LS Classic - 6.7kg | The Crumpton - 5.9kg

by Weenie


RyanH
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by RyanH

I ordered a set of Ambrosio Nemesis to handle dirt riding duty but the seller ended up cancelling since there was an issue with them. I've been wanting to try the Vlaanderens for awhile so I decided to glue them up to the Bora 50s.

Image

Acid brushes and a can of Mastik:

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Apply a light coat and then wait for 10-15 minutes for it to become tacky before mounting:

Image

Don't be afraid to pull the tire up on spots to reseat it and get it straight. After all is done:

Image

My initial riding impression of the Vlaanderens is that they do not gain any suppleness over the Roubaix, which probably means they are less supple than the Roubaix given I'm running them at 60/70 vs 70/80. Riding over bigger "crap" they seem to do with aplomb and I can get away with faster speeds cornering over broken surfaces. So, based on my brief ride I'd say get them if you have a use case for the extra width (e.g. dirt riding or cobbles) but for general road riding my recommendation would be the Roubaix.

Regarding the Bora 50s vs 35s:
I find them to be a hair stiffer laterally and I think vertically. It's just a very very slight difference. That's probably due to the 50s making use of a faring to get the extra depth so it's not structural like most other wheels. I'm preferential to the 35s but the 50s handle very well in cross winds, much better than the 404s (that's an understatement). I rode in a roughly 10mph cross wind the entire way home last week and didn't notice it once. I'm not sure how the other new generation wider rims corner, but these are night and day better than the older narrower Reynolds. I keep matching descending PRs without feeling like I'm trying. Brake track is much better IMO than Zipp and Reynolds. With the red pads they brake very very well and have no pulse. Overall though, I like the 50s and they'd be my recommendation over other offerings in a similar depth.
Strava
Current Stable. The Snob Machine
The Ex's. LS Siena: 6.21kg | Parlee Z5 SLi: 5.9kg | LS Xicon: 5.76kg | C59: 5.7kg | Cervelo R5ca: 5.09kg | Fuji Altamira SE - 6.2kg | Scott Foil - 6.2kg | Evo - 5.18kg | LS Classic - 6.7kg | The Crumpton - 5.9kg

RMcC
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by RMcC

What do you do to prepare the rim? Your way of glueing tubulars seems pretty simple and something I'd consider doing if it is that simple.

RyanH
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by RyanH

If it's a brand new rim then I lightly scuff it up and put a coat of glue on it. All other times I add one coat without touching the base glue job. If the base is thick already, I sometimes skip adding glue directly the rim since there's already enough there and may just touch up some areas. Oh, and with Veloflex there's no need to prestretch. From start to finish it takes less than 20 minutes.
Strava
Current Stable. The Snob Machine
The Ex's. LS Siena: 6.21kg | Parlee Z5 SLi: 5.9kg | LS Xicon: 5.76kg | C59: 5.7kg | Cervelo R5ca: 5.09kg | Fuji Altamira SE - 6.2kg | Scott Foil - 6.2kg | Evo - 5.18kg | LS Classic - 6.7kg | The Crumpton - 5.9kg

RyanH
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by RyanH

The T3 is getting a little plumper. A few changes:

Single pivot SR brake replaced with Skeleton Dual Pivot for additional tire clearance (28mm) +20g
CarbonWorks Cages (onto the Crumpton) replaced with gloss Arundel Mandibles +40g
Tune seatpost clamp replaced with Litespeed clamp (and Ti bolt) +11g

I'm contemplating getting the New Ultimate alloy post so that I don't run into issues with the seatpost getting stuck again. I also have a 3T -17 130mm stem coming which should drop the bar height by 16mm, weight difference should be minimal.

Here it is with temporary 4.5 wheels:

Image
Strava
Current Stable. The Snob Machine
The Ex's. LS Siena: 6.21kg | Parlee Z5 SLi: 5.9kg | LS Xicon: 5.76kg | C59: 5.7kg | Cervelo R5ca: 5.09kg | Fuji Altamira SE - 6.2kg | Scott Foil - 6.2kg | Evo - 5.18kg | LS Classic - 6.7kg | The Crumpton - 5.9kg

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Calnago
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by Calnago

RyanH wrote:Regarding the Bora 50s vs 35s:
I find them to be a hair stiffer laterally and I think vertically. It's just a very very slight difference. That's probably due to the 50s making use of a faring to get the extra depth so it's not structural like most other wheels. I'm preferential to the 35s but the 50s handle very well in cross winds, much better than the 404s (that's an understatement). I rode in a roughly 10mph cross wind the entire way home last week and didn't notice it once. I'm not sure how the other new generation wider rims corner, but these are night and day better than the older narrower Reynolds. I keep matching descending PRs without feeling like I'm trying. Brake track is much better IMO than Zipp and Reynolds. With the red pads they brake very very well and have no pulse. Overall though, I like the 50s and they'd be my recommendation over other offerings in a similar depth.

@Ryan: What do you mean the 50's use a "fairing" as opposed to it being structural. The 50's carbon depth is completely structural. It's not like a deep Mavic, which does indeed make use of a "fairing" type of carbon which is not structural at all and makes a hell of a lot of noise.

As for the Vlanderens, I too have just tested out a set on my brand new Bora 50's with the AC3 newest brake track. Meh... just too big for general road riding, even for the light packed crushed gravel like they have on bike paths I'm good with 25's. I think I'll be pulling them off and putting some Roubaixs/Arrenbergs on instead because I just cant see my having a use for the Vlanderens on my road bikes.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Imaking20
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by Imaking20

RyanH wrote:which should drop the bar height by 16mm, weight difference should be minimal.

:shock: That's a big change!

I must be getting old or... something... Those 4.5s look a little overpowering on this bike. I can't believe I'm saying it..
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RyanH
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by RyanH

Unless they've changed from MY2016 to MY2017, press with your thumb along the middle section of the rim. It's most noticeable on the rear, if you start in the middle point between the sets of spokes and press your way over towards where the spokes are, it'll get firmer. That's what I meant by "faring."
Strava
Current Stable. The Snob Machine
The Ex's. LS Siena: 6.21kg | Parlee Z5 SLi: 5.9kg | LS Xicon: 5.76kg | C59: 5.7kg | Cervelo R5ca: 5.09kg | Fuji Altamira SE - 6.2kg | Scott Foil - 6.2kg | Evo - 5.18kg | LS Classic - 6.7kg | The Crumpton - 5.9kg

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Calnago
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by Calnago

The Boras have been constructed similarly for a long time, the only real difference in the newest version is the extra treatement they've given the brake track. The sidewalls are thin for sure, but structural nonetheless. And nowhere near as thin as the sidewalls on the older Reynolds DV46UL's that I used to have. It's no different than pressing in on the top tube of a Trek Emonda or a lot of ultralight frames... it's thin enough that you can press it in with your fingers. But it's still structural. Unlike like some Mavic wheels where there's a faring over top of an alloy rim and the fairing does nothing structurally but simply provides and aero foil for the wind to pass over.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Denavelo
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by Denavelo

I think people mistook "Fairing" as the old style wheels like HED/MAVIC, that used a carbon fairing over an aluminum rim.
The Bora 50s are a complete carbon constructed rim, like Enve, Lightweight, etc.


Image
Speedvagen Road Machine "2011 Surprise me | Cannondale SuperSix Evo | Rob English "Mudfoot" 29er | Firefly Ti #419

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Calnago
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by Calnago

^Exactly
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Denavelo
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by Denavelo

From that image it looks like the rim is reinforced at the base at the top (Spoke Holes) and thin in the mid section.
If true, maybe that adds to the "Comfort" feel of the Bora 50 wheels. The Enve 4.5 wheels felt nothing like the Bora wheels, but that could be tire and rim depth.
The 4.5 wheelset is 48mm Front and 56mm rear. Add 27mm front and 25.5 rear, and you have a pretty damn stiff wheel!
Speedvagen Road Machine "2011 Surprise me | Cannondale SuperSix Evo | Rob English "Mudfoot" 29er | Firefly Ti #419

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Denavelo wrote:From that image it looks like the rim is reinforced at the base at the top (Spoke Holes) and thin in the mid section.

Yes, it is... that's what makes carbon "layups" so versatile, you can make it stronger where it needs to be and thinner where it doesn't. A high quality frame for example has a very detailed and strict "Layup Schedule", as to where exactly each piece of carbon needs to be layed, and in which orientation, and how many layers, etc., etc., From the outside they can pretty much all look the same. But what's underneath the paint can vary greatly.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


KarlC
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by KarlC

Calnago wrote: As for the Vlanderens, I too have just tested out a set on my brand new Bora 50's with the AC3 newest brake track. Meh... just too big for general road riding, even for the light packed crushed gravel like they have on bike paths I'm good with 25's. I think I'll be pulling them off and putting some Roubaixs/Arrenbergs on instead because I just cant see my having a use for the Vlanderens on my road bikes.


Cal what is it that you did not like about the Veloflex Vlaanderen tubulars ? Im on Zipp SL Speed 27s now but have been wanting to try some Veloflex tires out due to the amazing reviews.

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