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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 10:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 10:30 pm
Posts: 225
Frankie - B wrote:
I don't have any problems with the grip. Even on lose terrain. Try to run them at a little lower preassure.

Frank


Ive runned FF at around 40-45 psi.


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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 10:15 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 8:17 am
Posts: 5871
Location: Drenthe, Holland
try 35 / 40! Decrese with steps of 5 psi and when the tire is starting to slide, increse with another 5. This is your ideal preassure setting.

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'Tape was made to wrap your GF's gifts, NOT hold a freakin tire on.'

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a bit more detail about you - height weight etc,
I am 185cm and about 76kg. I like pina colada's and getting caught in the rain.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:28 pm 
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Frankie - B wrote:
try 35 / 40! Decrese with steps of 5 psi and when the tire is starting to slide, increse with another 5. This is your ideal preassure setting.


Problem is that i was having too much flats with torelli light tubes. Plus i couldnt get the thing working with stans tubeless kit.

Anyways this thing is fast even with tubes ! Wonder how fast this tire would be with say stans or eclipse.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:48 pm 
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Posts: 126
what is the Eclipse system you guys talk about, is it like stans no tubes?

Also i saw on mtbreview discussions on D.I.Y sealants like stans, anyone tried this?

Sounds a bit dodgy to me f#*ing with $60 tyres and resin/latex!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 11:10 pm 
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Location: Drenthe, Holland
Try to ride the tires with michelin latex innertubes. And as for Eclipse, yes thats almost the same as stan! You can run the ff's with the eclipse!

Just try angain!

_________________
Quote:
'Tape was made to wrap your GF's gifts, NOT hold a freakin tire on.'

Quote:
a bit more detail about you - height weight etc,
I am 185cm and about 76kg. I like pina colada's and getting caught in the rain.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 1:36 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2003 8:05 pm
Posts: 2070
drew wrote:
what is the Eclipse system you guys talk about, is it like stans no tubes?

Also i saw on mtbreview discussions on D.I.Y sealants like stans, anyone tried this?

Sounds a bit dodgy to me f#*ing with $60 tyres and resin/latex!


I use the Stans and it works great, less chance of getting a puncture and you can run lower pressures and perhaps slightly lighter set-up then conventional tubes.

For what its worth Eclipse is lighter than Stans and if your in Europe then try Gypzbikz.com to buy it.

The only tires I know of you have to be careful with latex is Conti Supersonics, the sidewalls can blow...although I haven't had that problem after 100+ miles on the rear tire.

The only downside is changing tires....it can get messy!

Here's a recipe I got from a friend after I got my Stans!

How to seal your rims and run tubeless with reliability and minimal investment.

We are not only going to tell you how to seal your rims and run tubeless, but we are also going to tell you how to seal almost any tire to run tubeless. Time involved can be less than thirty minutes per wheel, and costs less than two dollars per wheel.

Materials you will need:

Brake clean.
Nylon reinforced packing tape 3M brand.
Electrical tape 3M brand super 33 - 3/4in wide
Scotch bright scouring pad.
An old tube for the valve stem, use a tube that weighs about 170 grams, this we found provides for a firm but not too firm to seal. We found that you must use a presta valve in order to get a positive seal. Schrader valves will not work properly.
Liquid latex or molding rubber (this can be found in most craft shops) you can also use a can of fix a flat , which is readily available. The mold builder I use can be found at www.eti-usa.com click on mold builder then on where to purchase.
Water, or windshield washer solvent for below freezing temperatures. Michelin 22 mm wide semi flexible plastic rim strip weighing 15 grams. This is an option for those who are overly concerned with damaging the seal during tire changing. This also helps with the mounting of many non-tubeless tires. Definitely not for the weight weenies. A schrader to presta valve adapter.

If you are having problems finding anything call me and I can ship you some.

After cleaning your rims thoroughly with brake clean and a scotch pad, the next step would be to put the nylon reinforcing tape over the spoke holes. The nylon reinforcing tape only needs to be about 15 mm wide (see photo). Any wider than 15 mm will result in failure because the adhesives used in the packing tape will be dissolved by the ammonia in the latex and fix a flat mixtures. Once the packing tape is covered with the electrical tape it is not exposed to the solvent effects of the latex mixture. In order to cut your tape to 15 mm wide, measure 15 mm with a ruler then start a small slit with a razor blade and the remaining role will continue to unravel at that width. Start to tape between two spoke holes maintaining tension on the tape so as to avoid wrinkling the tape. Make one complete revolution around the rim and let the tape overlap itself approximately two inches. To seat the tape press firmly down with a shop rag and go around the rim in this manner. Now start the electrical tape around the rim in the same manner. Remember to maintain tension during this procedure as to not cause any wrinkles in the tape. Only go around the rim once with each type of tape. This will be an adequate seal and only add about ten grams of weight to the rim with an additional five grams coming from the valve stem. You weight weenies will appreciate sealed rims for only fifteen grams.

Be sure to clear the hole in the rim for the valve stem. A number two Philips screwdriver works very good for this. Push the hole from the taped valley side of the rim. Clean the valve stem hole with a round file to remove any tape from the inside of the valve stem hole. In order to properly seat the tape you must now mount a tire and tube in the usual way for about ten minutes with fifty pounds of air pressure. The mounted tire and tube will press the tape firmly and evenly insuring a positive seal. It is worth the wait.

To install the valve stem take a presta valve tube and cut the stem away from the tube to a width of about 10 to 12 mm (see photo). This diameter is crucial because too small means the stem will pull through the rim and too large will not allow the tire bead to seat. Push the valve stem through the rim hole and tighten the collar finger tight while pushing down from the back. You may need to retighten this collar after the tire is inflated. If your rim has a small hole on the inside (presta valve) then you can use an old 90 gram on up ultra light valve stem , the more flexiable the rubber the easier the seal. But if you have a schrader hole or rubber adaptor on the inside then use the 170 gram tube.

Now you can mount your tire of choice be it tubeless or non-tubeless. Lay the rim horizontal and mount the lower bead of your tire (see photo). Mix a quarter cup of water and one teaspoon of liquid latex and stir till mixed well (this ads about sixty grams). Pour the mixture inside the tire and then mount the final bead. Those riding in subfreezing temperatures can substitute windshield washer fluid in place of water to serve as antifreeze. This should be good to about zero degrees Fahrenheit. We have ridden in ten degree weather and have not experienced any problems with the water mixed solution. We do however suggest that you use the windshield washer solvent to avoid any unforeseen cold weather riding problems. We highly recommend using an air compressor for the first inflation especially when using a non-tubeless tire. Non-tubeless tires may have very porous sidewalls and previous punctures that will be sealed by the liquid latex mixture. Hold the tire vertically while inflating so as not to distort the bead (see photo). Once the bead has seated rotate the tire so the liquid latex mixture can seal any leaks (see photo). Use a soapy solution to check for any air leaks and rotate the tire so the liquid latex can get to these areas and seal them. This may take several minutes and in severe cases may require reinflation. Also check with soap around the valve stem. If it is leaking tighten stem if it does not stop you will have to rotate the tire so the liquid laytex can get to it and seal it. Play with it-you'll get it.

After mounting and sealing all holes you should spin the tire or better yet ride it . This will coat the inside of the tire and keep on sealing every time you ride. If you have an old tire you do not care about then mount that up tubeless with the 1/4 cup of liquid laytex . After you have it sealed grab a large needle and poke several holes in the tire ,you will be amazed how they're sealed almost instantly.

The cost savings and advantages of using my system for tubeless rims and tires are many fold. Several of my riding pals and I have ridden sub freezing temperatures with not one problem. I have tried out this system through out the Northeast as well as the Southwest parts of this country. From frozen single track to the slick rock of Moab it has not let me down. With my system you to can enjoy the advantages of tubeless technology with minimal cost or weight gain. My tubeless system will not leak down as compared to the heavier tubeless specific tires that are currently being sold. For instance if you want to run a 380 gram Maxis Minitor tire you can enjoy the weight savings and advantages of a tubeless self-sealing tire system. Your light weight wheel set can be converted to a tubeless set up with only 15 grams of added weight per wheel. Saving hundreds of dollars over purchasing new wheels.

No need to worry about the dreaded pinch flat. Possibly never having another puncture flat again because of the self-sealing qualities of the liquid latex. You will be able to keep on using your lighter weight tires and not be limited to buying expensive and way heavier tubeless specific tires. The liquid latex can also be used to seal the puncture flats and slow leaks that occurr around the beads of some tubeless tires. As result you will be able to run lower tire pressures gaining more traction and a better ride. Those of you out there who are riding hard tails would really benefit from this.

It is important to note that not all but many tires will mount up tubeless. For example a tire with a cloth bead will not mount as easy as a tire with a rubberized bead. A loose fitting tire will be harder to inflate that a tighter fitting one. The plastic Michelin rim strip will make the inflation of any tire and rim combination easier. Using a little squirt bottle with water or windex on the bead during inflation will aid in the bead sealing. It is very important that the entire bead must be between valve stem and the rim on both sides or the tire will not take air. After the initial mounting all subsequent mountings will be easier. We are often asked, "what happens if I get a flat on the Trail?" Normally you would use the tube you carry in your pack, or do like most riders and bum a tube from one of your pals, because they always carry one. Hell use their pump too.

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PLAY DARTS! *WARNING* MUST HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOR TO PLAY!!!


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