Can you tell the difference..

Discuss light weight issues concerning mountain bikes & parts.

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qwpy
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Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:34 pm

by qwpy

*Question/ thread has been answered.


.. the difference between a 'V brake' rim and a 'disc' rim? Is it pretty clear,
when it's in you're hands and about to build a wheel, can you tell the difference?

I just wonder, from a photo does this look like a disc or V brake rim,or, could it be confusing to an experienced wheel builder that does not stock Mavic rims?

Image


Image

To me it looks like a V-brake rim, it's heavy on the edge too.

Thanks for your thoughts

: /
Last edited by qwpy on Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

by Weenie


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Calnago
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by Calnago

First of all, why do you have to deliver the hub to a company that laces "their flagship hub" to the rim. If it's their flagship hub, wouldn't they have it on hand? Communication doesn't sound so great on either side but maybe you put too much faith in the builder assuming he would question the rim that "you" had sent to him. If I'm reading your post correctly, and that took a couple of times to be honest, you had agreed with the builder that you would supply both hub and rim. Who placed the order for the rim? The builder did what he said he'd do... Build the wheel on the "customer supplied" rim and disc. The error happened between whoever ordered the rim and whoever sent the rim to the builder. Too many parties involved and now you're where you're at. It's an unfortunate circumstance you're in now for sure, but I'd side with the builder on this one. If you want to be upset with someone, and this is assuming you were very clear on which exact rim was to be sent to the builder, then be upset with the retailer who sent the wrong rim, or upset with yourself for not having it sent to you first to make sure it's what you wanted. And I wouldn't expect them to offer much more than a rim exchange. Anything else would be a bonus. Probably not what you want to hear but not all that uncommon when you get so many hands in the pot either.

[Edit: Wow, I see you've deleted all the details from your initial post, which my response above (a couple of hours ago) was based upon]. Ok then...
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
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qwpy
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Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:34 pm

by qwpy

Calnago wrote:First of all, why do you have to deliver the hub to a company........


* I've shorten my first post to protect the wheel builder. This is also 'not' star bikes fault at all, this is not
involving them. I thought I should mention.

To answer your question.

I bought the hub thinking I could have the wheel built in England somewhere,
but even poshbikes would not build onto my new hub, as I bought the hub elsewhere.

No one in England could tell me they had the special tools and knew what to do confidently.

As it was a front wheel I decided not to take any risk (carbon hub) and luckily the manufacturer
said they would build my front wheel for me. Great news! And the communication was very good by emails,
with no worries at all.

The invoice was clear. 'disc' hub and 'disc' rim. In the emails 'disc' was mentioned . This was a disc build. everyone knew.

The builder knew I had 'not' checked the new rim, that was to be delivered from another location. That was confirmed more than once. It was confirmed when it had arrived at their shop by email, pre to the wheel being built. So I thought it had arrived o.k and correct.

However, I have today been told he 'did' check the rim but could not tell the difference between V and disc rims, as he does nto deal in mavic rims. He thought it was a disc rim and built onto it.

To be honest, I could tell a V brake rim from probably 30 meters away. Maybe more and I am not a world class expert.

Maybe something else happened here? Maybe the rim was not checked, left in the box, or simply wrapped up, and then a junior/ novice took over and he did not check the invoice and just did as his boss said. ( "Build that wheel")

side note: The spokes are a bit long, poking out the nipples by maybe 2mm on one side. but maybe that is normal? The spokes are tight. so O.k ..(starbike built me some awesome wheels once and the spokes just reached the top of the nipples, equal both sides.)

I also did offer to pay for a new rim, if they paid postage, meet half way? I thought that would be good offer.
as they would likely have a deal with ups or dhl. They said its not their fault and no.

The company is great tho, I love their products and the people are nice.

Sorry for the naff post. thanks for reading , and I hope this does not depress anyone.

peace.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

You shortened your initial post to "protect the builder"? As I remember reading, the builder wasn't even identified in your initial post. What you fail to mention in your second post is that you were the one responsible for supplying the builder with rim and hub, and it said so on the invoice ("customer supplied"). You had the retailer send the rim directly to the builder. Who was the one communicating with the supplier of the rim? You, or the builder? Sounded like it was you. So, when the builder receives the rim and the hub he built the wheel. You pretty much knocked the builder out of the procurement process and took away any profit he might have made, and you even state that you couldn't find anyone in England (which I find hard to believe) who would build the wheel for you.
Then you post on here, venting is more like it, how you feel the builder should be responsible for the mixup in rims. Could that rim have been used in the build, seems like it, even though it's not a "disc only" rim. I think this one is on you, and I don't think you have to worry about depressing anyone, or even feeling too sorry for you. It was your mistake. Don't blame the builder.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
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qwpy
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by qwpy

A retailer supplied the rim , the builder knew the rim would need checking, I had no hands or eyes to it.

apparently he did check it!!

but, He cant tell the difference between v brake and disc rims. ( mavic)

he said that in an email. That is his reason for saying its not his fault and i have to pay.

so, there really is nothing i can do, but pay again.

i am putting this as simple as I can now.

I quote you
" and you even state that you couldn't find anyone in England (which I find hard to believe) who would build the wheel for you."

it is true. No one had the tools or confidence. Hence the manufacture built the wheel...the builder had no suggestions other than Posh Bikes, They refuse, unless I buy the hub from them.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

And what exactly is the difference between the disc rim and the "v-brake" rim? I realize disc rims often need beefing up in the spoke area and they don't "need" a brake track, but some rims, with brake tracks, are also compatible with disc brakes, correct? Since the invoice said it was a rim (supplied by customer), you left a lot of leeway for mistakes in the entire process. And that's what happened it sounds like. I think I'd chalk this one up to experience and lesson learned.
Not sure what you're expecting to get by posting here as it seems I may have be one of the few who got to read all your initial details before you took them out of your initial post.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

qwpy
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by qwpy

A V brake rim has a special V brake area, like in the picture above, its for the pads.

also he knew it was coming from a retailer. he confirm it had arrived from a retailer.
There is nothing i can do if people do not know the difference between disc and V brake
rims. I really did not think I would have to hold his hand at that point.

UpFromOne
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by UpFromOne

I'm a wheelbuilder from wayback. That's a rim-brake rim, having a machined sidewall. Granted, there are some "disc" rims with straight (albeit non-machined) sides that appear as though they can take rim brakes, but typically the sidewall is not thick enough for any extended use of rim pads.

Is not your issue really with the retailer who sold you the rim? Any rim-brake rim can of course also take discs, but that doesn't make it a "disc" rim, as that term of art really means "disc-only". And I am assuming you placed the order for the rim.

The machined sidewall on your rim which aesthetically takes away from the disc-only aspect which you may have assumed, but did not make crystal clear with your rim retailer.

But because the builder did his job, a service only, with customer-supplied hub & rim, the builder has no liability.

Next time ask your retailer for a "disc-only" rim. Or permit the builder to supply an appropriate rim, as you are already paying for his or her knowledge and judgment for each wheel that leaves his or her hands.

TheRookie
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by TheRookie

Most of the lower level Mavic disc rims are the same as the rim brake rim but without the machining so they are heavier!

Did you tell ten builder it was a disc specific rim?

Either way it works as a rim, it attaches to the spokes and can have a tyre wrapped round it.

Your cheapskate approach cam home to roost, maybe next time you'll either use a single supplier or learn to build your own?

The XC717 isn't a current stock rim either, which I guess is why you got it (as it was cheap), the rim brake rim is listed at 25g heavier than the disc rim on CRC. Neither is that light at circa 400g (my Alpines are 325g and I have some Ryde that are 375g).
Last edited by TheRookie on Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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mattr
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by mattr

And if this is a top end hub, why do you have a mid range rim laced to it?

And i very much doubt you couldn't find a wheel builder in the UK to build it, you just didn't look very hard.

qwpy
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:34 pm

by qwpy

Because the xc717 takes a high psi, a wide tyre and there was a price limit for this bike.
it was the price we wanted to spend. we had a price limit believe it or not.

I was told by the manufacture there were no shops I could use. please try to understand.
no one had the tools or skills for this new hub. o.k so i sent it to the manufacturer.

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Fixie82
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by Fixie82

What is this magical hub that no one else wanted to touch?

qwpy
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Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:34 pm

by qwpy

This is a one off customer issue.
I do not want anyones reputation damaged due to some singular issue.
doing so would not be right ....

I would prefer the thread closed. But i cant see how to do so.

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Fixie82
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by Fixie82

To be honest from the previous conversation and the information you are providing I don't think anyone's reputation (apart from yours) would be tarnished.

If the builder had no experience with The Mavic product line and knowing the purchased rim was old stock there is every chance that they thought a disc rim might have come with a silver sidewall. Is it really his job to research the rim you supplied, compare pictures and decide if it's correct? From what you are saying you gave him minimal information in the first place except to say it was a 'disc' rim sent directly to him. Maybe he thought you purposely bought the old stock with silver sidewalls?

by Weenie


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qwpy
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Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:34 pm

by qwpy

This has all been answered!

The builder has already emailed me to say he could not tell the difference!

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