Is boost 110/148 really that good?

Discuss light weight issues concerning mountain bikes & parts.

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Ghost234
Posts: 397
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:21 am

by Ghost234

I may need to buy a new MTB in the near future, and with this new "standard" its worth a look at. Does it really make that big of a difference? How is it with getting wheels? Any experience?

CGT
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden

by CGT

29er or 27,5? That makes a difference I'd say. Also, how heavy are you and what kind of riding will you be doing?

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Gullholm
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by Gullholm

I haven't tried it yet, so I can't tell you anything from real world testing, but if you find a bike with Boost that suits you I'd definitely say go for it. If not for performance, then for peace of mind since it really seems to be the next "big" hub standard since 12x142/15x100. Already quite a few brands use it somewhere in their model lineup and since it offers benefits for both 27,5/27,5+/29 with just a small weight penalty I think it soon will be very common on everything from xc race bikes to long travel enduro bikes.
So even if the Boost options are still a bit limited (but you can find a lot, anything from Extralite to Sram) I think it's the safer choice if you plan to keep the bike for a few years and want it somewhat futureproof.

There was an interesting interview on Pinkbike the other day with Daniel Berger who is head of product at DT Swiss and he had this to say about Boost:
"Today at DT we need to offer what we call parallel developments. If you look at the progression with 135mm, 142mm and now 148mm at the back. Now we can see clearly that 135mm is almost gone, but we still sell 135m because there are still frames offered for 135mm. Now they are going to 142mm and coming in parallel is 148mm. I'm pretty sure that in two years 142mm will be gone and they will go to 148mm."

Ghost234
Posts: 397
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:21 am

by Ghost234

29er. I will mostly be doing XC riding/racing, but I may make a trip or two to the Appalachians/Rockies for some more rugged/technical riding.

DanW
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by DanW

It is no different in use to 100/ 142 thru axles. It supposedly about creating clearance for frame designs (shorter chainstays IIRC) but with a switch among many to 1x drivetrains some manufacturers are ignoring the front mech all together which gives you freedom to make shorter chainstays anyway. Trek also claim increased tyre clearance and stiffer wheels but that is so marginal and could be designed in to existing components anyway.

End result, yes it is likely to be completely standard in the near future, no there isn't great compatibility at the moment, no there are no real world performance benefits any reviewers have been able to detect so far (aka marketing change to sell something new ;) ). It wouldn't be the end of the world to have but equally you aren't going to miss anything performance-wise with 100/ 142 thru axles and just like 135QR is still supported, I would imagine 100/ 142 will be supported for a long time too.

TheRookie
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by TheRookie

The irony is that many of the AM 142 and now 148 offerings are adapted from 135 designs meaning you get very little of the claimed (wheel side rather than frame/fork side) benefits, the spoke flanges haven't moved and the wheel is no stiffer.

For a WW the specific parts are still pretty heavy.

Only time will tell whether BOOST becomes a standard or a curio.....

29er was the next standard and was going to kill off 26ers remember and then 27.5 came along and the market (sales numbers) for 29ers went through the floor.

9x100 and 10x135 here and not changing any time soon - Bah Humbug! (and a plain steerer fork as well!)
Impoverished weight weenie wanna-be!
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afalts
Posts: 157
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by afalts

TheRookie wrote:The irony is that many of the AM 142 and now 148 offerings are adapted from 135 designs meaning you get very little of the claimed (wheel side rather than frame/fork side) benefits, the spoke flanges haven't moved and the wheel is no stiffer.




Can you list what hubs you have seen that use the same geo as their 142 offerings?

Admittedly I haven't looked at geo for many hubs, but all the ones I've seen have changed their geo (i.e. increased flange width) - DT Swiss, Hope, Industry Nine, Tune.

Having ridden the same wheel (DT X1700) in both boost and non boost, I noticed a difference. Will it make you faster? Probably not a whole lot, but it definitely feels better! Stiffness wise, it was kinda like going from aluminum rims to carbon, other than the weight loss advantages.

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LeDuke
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Location: Front Range, CO

by LeDuke

Every 148 hub I've seen has improved geometry. Meaning, wider flanges.

A 142x12mm hub is a 135mmx10mm hub with 3.5mm longer end caps; no changes to geometry.

That said, I weigh 142lbs and ride carbon rims on a carbon XC frame, with 20psi in the tires. Any and all flex I feel is going to come from the tires and suspension pivots, not the wheels.

afalts
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by afalts

That's what I thought. Figured TheRookie was just blowin' smoke ;)

Gullholm
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by Gullholm

As for weight and stiffness Industry Nine claims that wheel stiffness is increased by 10-15% and a Boost hub of theirs weigh 6g more than the same hub in 142mm. So the weight penalty really isn't that big even if you add up the weight from slightly wider axles, fork/frame.

I also have only seen Boost hubs with improved geometry, that is after all the whole point from the hub manufacturers perspective, and there's already some very light options to choose from companies like Extralite, Tune and Carbon-Ti including light axles.

DanW
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by DanW

That's what I thought. Figured TheRookie was just blowin' smoke


I think the other point is that most people will end up buying "normal" 142/ 100 wheels and have to space them out to be compatible (at least while prices the better deals will be on the "old" stuff and availability of the BOOST stuff is still growing). Same goes for people with several sets of wheels at the moment buying a new BOOST frame/ fork. Given the choice between suddenly replacing my Tune and AC wheels for a new frame or just spacing them out I know which I choose in which case BOOST offers little to nothing. Doesn't suit me but may well be up others' streets

UpFromOne
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Location: Olympic Nat'l Park, WA

by UpFromOne

OK, Boost 148mm - 142mm = 6mm difference at rear.
Many rims now have a 3mm spoke hole offset.
Meaning effectively -3mm center-to-flange to the NDS, and +3mm on the DS.
Those offsets on each side due to the rim alone, combine to locate a 142mm hub within the dropouts as if it were Boost.

Same effect in front.

No real difference, correct?

weeni
in the industry
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by weeni

pls see this 27.5 boost wheels with Novatec hub D711SB-B15 for 110*15 /D712SB-B12 for 148*12 axle, what do you think of it?
the real weight for whole wheelset is 1624g for AM version.

http://www.xmcarbonspeed.com/Productinfo.asp?f=1417
web: www.xmcarbonspeed.com
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Johnnysmooth
Posts: 180
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Location: Beantown

by Johnnysmooth

Just got a Yeti SB4.5 - yes she's a screaming sweet ride...

Anyway, she is also set up for Boost wheelset - in my experience, getting Boost wheelset was slight challenge as the demand today outstrips vendors inventory. I had to wait a couple of weeks for i9 to build up a set.

The i9s are an excellent wheelset (29s) plenty stiff for this 77kg rider
It only hurts if you think.

by Weenie


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sholiday
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Location: San Luis Obispo, CA

by sholiday

Gullholm wrote:As for weight and stiffness Industry Nine claims that wheel stiffness is increased by 10-15% and a Boost hub of theirs weigh 6g more than the same hub in 142mm. So the weight penalty really isn't that big even if you add up the weight from slightly wider axles, fork/frame.

I also have only seen Boost hubs with improved geometry, that is after all the whole point from the hub manufacturers perspective, and there's already some very light options to choose from companies like Extralite, Tune and Carbon-Ti including light axles.


You only mentioned 6g penalty for the hub and some for the 6mm longer axle but you forgot the spokes. Assuming flange height remains the same, each spoke will be longer and thereby heavier. Now the question is by how much? If you assume ~0.3g more then a 32 spoke wheel will be ~10g more. With 2 wheels that's ~20g more. I'm not saying this is a big difference but it's rotating weight so it's different than a stem that weighs 20 grams more.
Parlee Z3 4.94kg: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=101920
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