New rider, XC oriented frame

Discuss light weight issues concerning mountain bikes & parts.

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HaakonJohansen
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:58 pm

by HaakonJohansen

I'm considering doing a XC oriented build, and as I'm totally new to this kind of riding, I was hoping to get some (read; a lot!) of help getting started with my choice of frame. Although I'm new to the XC world, I've been doing quite a lot freeride oriented biking. Just thought I should mention in case this should affect my choice of frame in any way. I'm not saying I'm going to ride hard on this bike though, just don't want to leave out any information, in case someone might have something to point out.

I'm 186cm tall, weight is around 75-80kg, normal length in arms and legs, relative to my size. First of all; does my size directly indicate that I need one specific wheel size over another? Or is it more complicated than this? Personally I'm most keen on the 27,5" size, not because I've compared 27,5 and 29, but because I like the looks and weight better, and the thought of it being a little more playful. If a lot of you guys thinks that my weight/hight indicates otherwise though, I'll listen to you.

Also, I'm not going to ride professionally. No contests and stuff, just commuting and training with friends. I do want to use mostly high end components though, and I want the build to be as light as possible (for fun;) ). At the moment, I'm only wondering about the frame though, as I know quite a lot about what components I want.

What I know I want is this:
- A frame that works well with both a suspension fork and a rigid fork, if possible.
- Light, preferably carbon.
- Most up to date rear wheel spacing (142x12mm?), if there isn't any indications this is going to change soon of course.

Last, I'm wondering if i should consider Chinese carbon frames? Or should I really stay away from those? Remember I'm not going to ride professionally though!

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drider85
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:53 pm

by drider85

It sounds like your thinking hardtail. There are fewer options of size Large 27.5 XC hardtails. I don't know the likely hood of you riding more aggressively. There are also several options of hardtail trail bike if you see yourself getting a little more carried away.

I wouldn't have a problem with a Chinese XC frame if you pick a more reputable seller. The don't have as much character as the name brands. The one I had was smooth but a little vauge/hollow/soulless type ride. Name brand frame I have owned had more defined character either; wicked fast/stiff, comfortable.

If your thinking full suspension that opens another set of options.

HaakonJohansen
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:58 pm

by HaakonJohansen

drider85 wrote:It sounds like your thinking hardtail. There are fewer options of size Large 27.5 XC hardtails. I don't know the likely hood of you riding more aggressively. There are also several options of hardtail trail bike if you see yourself getting a little more carried away.

I wouldn't have a problem with a Chinese XC frame if you pick a more reputable seller. The don't have as much character as the name brands. The one I had was smooth but a little vauge/hollow/soulless type ride. Name brand frame I have owned had more defined character either; wicked fast/stiff, comfortable.

If your thinking full suspension that opens another set of options.

Thanks. I'm definitely thinking hardtail, and not thinking about getting too carried away on this bike either;) And I don't think the character of the bike will be an issue for me, as I've so little experience with this kind of biking. But do you think a 27,5 inch will suit me fine? Should I be looking for a 17" frame?

Also, do you have any suggestions to which Chinese builders I could use, or if there are any I should definitely stay away from?

DanW
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Location: Here, there and everywhere

by DanW

As a light, tall person Street riding on Extralite hubs it is hard for anyone top recommend stuff for you :D A lot of those questions such as wheel size are way beyond the scope of WW really so I'll try and help with the specifics.

Chinese carbon HT's are great for light, decently performing frames for not much money. I have a 256-sl from Hongfu. It didn't cost much and is 1061g (has a BSA BB which adds weight, even lighter with pressfit BB's) in a Large (1.75m but like my XC bikes long and low) which is hard to beat even from the named brands. I would suggest browsing the giant thread on MTBR where almost every question has been answered- it comes up straight away with a quick Google. 142x12 is more than fine (what most people would go for) and all will take a rigid fork (lots of rigids with different AC heights available). Bear in mind almost all the Chinese frames seem to come from the same place and the "manufacturers" are just resellers with varying warranties and mark ups in price.

HaakonJohansen
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:58 pm

by HaakonJohansen

DanW wrote:As a light, tall person Street riding on Extralite hubs it is hard for anyone top recommend stuff for you :D A lot of those questions such as wheel size are way beyond the scope of WW really so I'll try and help with the specifics.

Chinese carbon HT's are great for light, decently performing frames for not much money. I have a 256-sl from Hongfu. It didn't cost much and is 1061g (has a BSA BB which adds weight, even lighter with pressfit BB's) in a Large (1.75m but like my XC bikes long and low) which is hard to beat even from the named brands. I would suggest browsing the giant thread on MTBR where almost every question has been answered- it comes up straight away with a quick Google. 142x12 is more than fine (what most people would go for) and all will take a rigid fork (lots of rigids with different AC heights available). Bear in mind almost all the Chinese frames seem to come from the same place and the "manufacturers" are just resellers with varying warranties and mark ups in price.

Thanks man;) I didn't quite understand what you meant about that statement regarding the hubs though. Don't you think they'll work fine? Or do you just mean that I seem to know a bit? English isn't my first language, so I might miss some points sometimes:P

bikerector
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:04 pm

by bikerector

I did a good bit of research on HT 27.5's in 2014 before I got mine. I wanted the 27.5" more because I tend to be hard on wheels for mtb than anything so the smaller wheels seem to last better and then there was the added benefit that I could get the bars lower than on a 29" so it felt closer to my CX bike when mixing mtb races with CX races in the fall season.

Of the more mainstream brands, Giant, Scott, and Norco seem to be the choices. I think those are also some of the best options for XC oriented full-suspensions utilizing 27.5" wheels.

Norco's carbon bike is the revolver HT. They have some other cheaper, more relaxed geometry options in aluminum but they're heavy and more recreational oriented than race oriented.

Giant's XTC are pretty nice, in either alum or carbon. Same with scott's scale.

Of the 3 I've test ridden the Giant and owned the norco and the norco was by far the stiffest frame, to the point of being brutal for long races, like endurance races, and the giant felt more comfortable and tamer. The norco can't take a tire wider than a 2.25" in the rear to help take the sting out of the tail end for longer riders. It's a good bike for short races like short track it's just not up to mile munching, at least not with me on it. I ride road mostly so my body never get's used to the rougher riding of the hardtail.

Rear wheels spacing is 12x142mm. I don't think XC bikes will jump into the new boost axle thing right away, I haven't seen any yet anyway. Seems like most I've seen using it are the new 27.5+ bikes and I assume it's for the tire clearance and/or suspension related reasons.

DanW
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Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 5:39 pm
Location: Here, there and everywhere

by DanW

Comment was joking that you have strange preferences when it comes to bike components (Extralite hubs for street riding) so might be hard a little hard to find an XC frame for :D

Have you posted up this Street bike?

With the XC HT frames it mainly comes down to practicalities (cable routing, BB type, rear axle type, tyre clearance) so you can't go too far wrong. Only other thing to look out for is geometry and I'd size by stack and reach especially if you have an old frame you know fits you well (ignore effective top tube, certainly ignore seat tube length) and I'd also personally look for something with Scott Scale/ Pivot LES/ Cannondal F-Si/ Hongfu 256-sl type geometry (slightly slacker HTA, longer reach, lower stack, etc)

mattyNorm
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:29 pm

by mattyNorm

It's not up to the frame if it will ride well with a rigid fork, its up to the fork. You want to choose one with as close to the same rake, trail, and axle to crown length as the original squishy fork. As far as axle standards are concerned, 142x12 will hopefully remain the standard but boost is starting to show is ugly head so it's anyone's guess. 29v27.5 is more of a personal thing, manufacturers have basically figured out how to make them as fun to ride as smaller wheeled bikes but I still prefer my 27.5. If you're planning to go rigid I'd lean towards 29er for a slightly more forgiving ride and better roll over.

HaakonJohansen
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:58 pm

by HaakonJohansen

Thanks again for all the interest and input guys! Helps me a lot. Btw. DanW, I agree that Extralite hubs for street is quite strange. But then again, nobody has really advised me against it, so I guess it's worth a try;) Think I might end up with Extralite hubs on this build as well, if their rear hubs are any good (?).

And to answer your question, no. I haven't posted my street bike on here. Didn't think anyone here was interested in that stuff, am I wrong? It's on pinkbike though: http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/11690504/, new, lighter cranks on now though.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

27.5+ makes some sense. rolling diameter is the same as a 29er with 2.2" tyres but you get a wider tyre. This however suit those who need a wide tyre i.e those who ride rocks alot. I dont so i am happy with a 29er.

Look at the Kenesis FF29. I have mine built up with a Kenesis rigid fork and 2.0" tubular tyres. On long rides it is comfortable and have done quite well on it in some races.

I would not get hung up about which axle standard to go for. Hubs are convertable anyway. DT Swiss, Hope, Miche e.t.c require nothing more than a change of end caps to convert. I am still yet to be convinced that 142x12mm or 15mm front axles are actually an improvement over standard Q/R. It feels much of a muchness to me for the riding I do.

In all the XC races i have done all of the top 10 are on 29er's that should tell you something. the bigger the rolling diameter the better but doing it by making the tyres wider and taller is not the best way for XC racing but is better for long days in the hills rock crawling and the like.

HaakonJohansen
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Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:58 pm

by HaakonJohansen

I'm going to use the bike a lot on the road as well, so I'm not going with either 27,5 or 29.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

I use my 29er on the road. I have a 40/28T chainset and have ridden the bike on club runs no problems in keeping up. Averaging 17 or 18mph solo is pretty easy with 2.0" tyres at 23psi. Mine is rigid as well. Proper XC will involve road time too connecting up the trails.

so if you are not going with a 27.5" or 29er what is you are buying then a 26". These are slower everywhere road or off road.

bikerector
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:04 pm

by bikerector

Something that came to mind with mattyNorm's post, I don't think there are many full carbon forks for 27.5 like there are for 29. I looked into it shortly for CX racing use as my "B" bike but never came across anything from the regular carbon 29 fork companies I see in my area (whiskey, white bros, niner). If you want to run it rigid, might want to make sure you will be able to source a fork.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

27.5" bikes are marketed as trail bikes. Trail bikes have suspension. 29er's are marketed more as XC race machines and there rigid forks are more common.

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HaakonJohansen
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:58 pm

by HaakonJohansen

I think I'll run a suspension fork eventually. Was mostly thinking about getting a rigid to start with, to save some bucks. After saving up some money, I'm kind of keen on trying the new German:A Xcite Zero. I know there's a lot less 27.5 forks than there is 29 forks, but they do exist. Even some really cheap Chinese ones. I might end up getting a 29" bike though. I'm not really sure yet, but your input seems to be steering me a bit in that direction.
Last edited by HaakonJohansen on Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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