Let's talk about tubulars

[LeDuke]

So why bother with heavy and expensive tubs? Serious question. I run 20-25psi in tubeless, never wanted to run less, and never burped a tyre.

For me, unless there was a weight saving I'd not bother with tubs.

I have a set of ENVE XC (clinchers) on 240s. 28h, 3x.

I also have a set of Chinese 30mm tubulars on 240s. 32h, 3x.

The ENVEs have 29x2.25 RoRo SS on them, the tubs have Tufo XC4. The ENVE wheels are around 100-150g lighter, if I remember correctly.

The tubs are faster in every condition other than mud. The lateral grip, and off-camber grip, is amazing.

Believe or or not, weight is not the only consideration. Blasphemy, I know, but it has to be said. I race on the fastest bike for given conditions, not the lightest, and the fastest bike is often not the lightest.

[hjb1000]

My first tubular wheelset I built over the holidays- DT Swiss 350/Remerx 26 tubular 32H/Tufo XC4 55mm tubulars.
Man, tubulars ARE amazing. Can't believe how good these are.
Excuse the square taper cranks, this has been a q-factor and crank length 'tester'...

Bike is 10kg. I will upgrade to 1x11 XTR and hopefully get it down to 9.5 or so...

[jimborello]

Im about to order a set of LB tubular rims. At 320gr +-15gr for a 29er they seem pretty nice for the price. What do you think of the 27 mm width they have?? Is it a little overkill or is it perfect to match with a set of Dugast 50mm fast birds?? Let me know your thoughts as it is the first time Im using tubulars for XC and Xterra racing.

[LeDuke]

The wider the better, IMO. I have 27mm tubular and 30mm tubular rims. I wouldn't go under that; no "road" rim is going to provide enough support for the way those should be ridden.

That said, I'd check out the Tufo offerings. You won't have to seal the sidewalls, unlike the Dugasts.


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[jimborello]

Thanks LeDuke, I followed you recommendation and ordered a set ot TUFO XC2 tubulars, Ill try them first because they are lighter, cheaper and from what you say more reliable than the Dugasts. Ill have to wait tough for the rims because Chinese new year is this nexte week and all orders will take an 10 days more to be fulfilled.

[DanW]

Would this be a fair summary of MTB tubular tyre options:

- Dugast are probably "the best" but are expensive, need a little more looking after of the sidewalls and are generally not very wide or aggressive treads- ie very XC raceday specific
- Tufo are the most popular as they are easy to live with and still have some tubular feel despite having relatively stiff sidewalls compared to the Dugasts
- Challenge are more supple than Tufo but often not the best manufacturing quality hence not so popular
- Geax/ Vittoria are stiffer in feel than Tufo so offer less of the "tubular" advantages despite having some nice tread patterns available
- Tufo tape is the way to go when it comes to gluing, maybe with some glue around the edges for security too?

I am incredibly tempted by LB 320g tubular rims on Mack Superlight or POP rear/ Goldtec front hubs, 28 DT rev spokes and alu nips. Should be nice and light but not toooo pricey. At the moment I am thinking about Tufo XC4's as a decent drier weather all rounder for enjoying away from racedays too.

I'm curious to hear how people get on with tubular MTB tyres day to day. I am guessing that using sealant on MTB gets rid of a lot of punctures you may get on the road without sealant and if you rip a tyre properly then your day is pretty messed up whether it be a clincher or tubular? Touchwood I've got on very well with tubeless tyres and the only real bad day I've had is a new Schwalbe that blew off the rim every 2 seconds

[krzysiekmz]

I've had Dugasts and the ride was superb. They were much heavier than Tufos and mine did not have removable valve cores (to add sealant). Another thing that it is a traditional tubular tire, meaning they have a tube sewn in. Not sure how good this would be with sealant in. I've punctured and went with Tufos in the meantime. These were Dugast Fast Bird 48mm. Too bad because these had the best feel and ride quality of any tubular I've tried. Esthetically, mine had tan sidewalls. Black sidewalls are hard to get, I think.

I'va also had Tufo XC2 Plus. These are light, have removalbe valve cores and handle great on easier, dry xc type of terrain. They were more like a 1.8 tire in reality.

With some info. and convincing review from WW user LeDuke, last year I decided to try Tufo xc4, despite a weight penalty. Much much better tires I must agree. On the rim they are more like a 2.0-2.1 tire. Not great in mud but that is not what they're for. More supple ride and more traction over Tufo XC2 Plus. I run mine with Stans sealant and (knock on wood) had no issues.


Chris.

[the_marsbar]

Remember that if you get a puncture with a Dugast, it's not a good idea to use Notubes liquid. The latex in Notubes' liquid will ruin the latex inner tube of the Dugast. Instead, use something like Caffelatex.

I haven't punctured on my Dugast CX tubulars yet (knock on wood), but I know one who did, and he used Caffelatex to seal the puncture.

[DanW]

Chris, can you give some more details of the XC4's? Are they an out and out hardpack tyre or good for a small amount of wetness/ rocks/ roots? It is always hard to tell from pictures but they look like somewhere between a Ron and a Ralph- is this fair?

[LeDuke]

Chris, can you give some more details of the XC4's? Are they an out and out hardpack tyre or good for a small amount of wetness/ rocks/ roots? It is always hard to tell from pictures but they look like somewhere between a Ron and a Ralph- is this fair?

In my experience, the XC4s have better lateral grip than either Rons or Ralphs. Quite amazing, given their knob height.

They don't shed mud very well.

Amazing tire for loose and dusty, for hardback, and dry rocks/roots.


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[krzysiekmz]

I second the above.

Small tightly spaced knobs resemble Kenda Small Block 8 tires.

It's a rather narrow tire with low volume but being a tubular it just works wonderfully with low pressure and thread pattern. Again, it is better that XC2 in all aspects, except a bit heavier.

Does not like too much mud but is ok in some wet rocks roots in my opinion. It is a bit of personal prefference and what someone thinks a tire will behave like in wet conditions. Wet rocks/roots are a challenge for any tire.


Chris.

[bm0p700f]

I am now racing on dugast tubs. The tubs are perfect. Got 4 geax tubulars as spares but i am tempted to ride them day to day. The tubuars seem tough and i do think sealant will sort out all but the worst punctures. So i am tempted to get another set of rims and use these as my training set.

I ride the dugast tubs at 20 psi but i think that maybe too high.

[bm0p700f]

Were are you guys getting tufo 29er tubs. Id love to try them. Got several 26er ones going spare. Ill never use them again if anyone wants them.

[LeDuke]

R2-Bike, eBay, etc.


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[jooo]

Starbike have the 29er XC5 - anyone used it? It looks like it would be more suitable for mud/loose terrain.