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 Post subject: XTR 2015
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:20 am
Posts: 386
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Saw this on another forum and thought it would be worth re-posting. Highlights seem to be:

11 Speed
11-40 Cassette
Di2 or Mechanical options

http://www.26in.fr/news/28106-shimano-2 ... mages.html

What do you reckon? Not a fan of the look of the crankset...


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 Post subject: XTR 2015
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:45 pm 
  • 32.90 € (including 19% VAT)
  • 80 components


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 Post subject: Re: XTR 2015
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 5:23 pm
Posts: 642
Location: Denmark
Your link doesn't seem to work.

I guess it should be this: http://www.26in.fr/news/28106-shimano-2 ... mages.html

I also don't like the look of the crankset. But I'd be interested in hearing more about the rear derailleur, and the electronics. Will the cassette fit on a standard freehub?

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 Post subject: Re: XTR 2015
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:53 pm
Posts: 130
Details on the shifters and electronics would be awesome. Would it run off a XD driver? 1x11 in electronic sounds sweet!


But for the crank design 7 speed tourney called they want there design back.


Last edited by drider85 on Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: XTR 2015
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:20 am
Posts: 386
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
One of the pics shows the hub which looks pretty much like an 11 speed road freehub. Think they have missed a trick there though, they had to redo the freehub anyway, so why not go for something like Sram's wider range rather than play it really safe?


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 Post subject: Re: XTR 2015
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm
Posts: 573
Yeah, the difference between having a 10 tooth vs 11 tooth available is huge!

Hopefully though it'd be cross compatible like the rest and you could run an XX1 or XO1 cassette on an XTR group.


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 Post subject: Re: XTR 2015
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:38 pm 
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Location: Here, there and everywhere
SRAM seem to have released the right thing at the right time whereas Shimano are a bit late to the party without any clear advantage to make it stand out and justify the extra cost to a big enough market.

Electric XTR Di2 would most likely be expensive, hard for the home mechanic to maintain/ fix at the trailside and all without any real clear benefits (a single cable to a conventional rear mech is not hard to maintain and 1x eliminates the front mech trimming advantages) and a harder concept for the majority of MTBers to buy in to or even afford in the first place.

1x elec shifting is likely to be heavier, more complicated and certainly more expensive. No benefits to offset any of this over XX1 or similar.

2x elec shifting does make more sense with the front mech trimming benefits but I'm not sure how popular multiple chainrings are any more for MTB and if many people really require any more range than XX1.

All I really want is for Shimano to copy XX1. SRAM has the best ideas and implements them badly, while Shimano has stupid ideas but far higher quality. Don't get me wrong, if I were to build a reasonable level road bike and had money to burn I'd strongly consider Ultegra Di2 and probably love it. I just don't see what Shimano can come up with to pry people away from XX1 for MTB. Let's hope for a pleasant surprise!


Oh, and the chainset is ugly as sin!


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 Post subject: Re: XTR 2015
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:34 pm 
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Yeah, the difference between having a 10 tooth vs 11 tooth available is huge!

Hopefully though it'd be cross compatible like the rest and you could run an XX1 or XO1 cassette on an XTR group.


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 Post subject: Re: XTR 2015
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
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DanW wrote:
2x elec shifting does make more sense with the front mech trimming benefits but I'm not sure how popular multiple chainrings are any more for MTB and if many people really require any more range than XX
outside of the UK, the only people who use single ring seem to be proper hardcore racers xc/4x/dh and the weenie You very rarely see a portly 40 something IT middle manager riding a single ring. In the UK, it seems to be the weapon of choice for everyone, whether they are at the 5+w/kg end of the spectrum, or more likely, the 5kg/watt


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 Post subject: Re: XTR 2015
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:43 am 
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You don't gain too much range with the doubles offered by XTR , especially not at the easy end of the spectrum. Maybe most people lose out on top end speed with XX1 which doesn't seem to be a concern in the IT middle manager example you use.

32T with 10-42T XX1 cassette is equivalent to 27T and 36T chainrings with a 11-36 cassette. Granted this isn't a popular double chainring combo but if you need more climbing ability then 30T chainring/ 42T cassette is pretty much the same as 22T ring/ 32T cog or 26T ring/ 36T cog. If you are running anything smaller than that I'd be very surprised. This kind of gearing at 80rpm is around 4mph which is painfully slow no matter who you are. Everyone survived with a 22T ring and 11-32T cassette in the days of triples (same easy gear as XX1 with a 30T chain ring) so I can't see an issue with MAMILs struggling on 1x.

The whole 1x popularity thing might be a different story outside the UK and I can understand this. That has been driven by a hatred of the front mech as they are a massive PITA for the non stop mud we seem to have :D


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 Post subject: Re: XTR 2015
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:28 pm 
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I wouldn't be surprised if the 1x electric option is actually fairly competitive with XX1. The shifter has potential to be WAY lighter since there is no need for anything other than two plastic buttons, I'd guess this will be enough to at least cancel out the weight of the battery. The crankset is claimed at 640g, I think it's safe to assume that this is for the 2x crankset, which means it is totally within reason to think it will be around 560g setup 1x, and, on top of that, Shimano BB's are quite a bit lighter than Sram's(unless you're running BB/PF30, but thats a topic for another time). The electric cables should be lighter than standard housing and steel cables. Seeing as a Di2 DA derailleur is around 30g heavier than a standard derailleur, and an XTR shadow+ is around 215g, I can easily see a Di2 XTR derailleur being around 245g (and that's assuming they didn't knock a couple grams off the new rear derailleurs like they usually do). That leaves the cassette..The only place that will likely be heavier. However, seeing as how the jump from an 11-32 9sp cassette to an 11-36 10sp cassette was around 30-40g, I think it's feasible that the new XTR 11-40 cassette will be no more than 320g, making it only 50-60g heavier than an XX1 cassette, and putting the entire group only marginally heavier than an XX1 group (albeit with a smaller gear range).


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 Post subject: Re: XTR 2015
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:40 pm 
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My main issue with 1x10 Di2 XTR is that there is nothing likely to be gained over XX1. Why bother go electric for a rear mech? Front mech and can see the trimming benefits but it isn't hard to keep a rear mech smooth. Why would anyone in their right mind pay 2-3 times the price of XX1 for minimal performance gain? Add on top that it isn't easily user serviceable which isn't great for MTB when you are often out in the cold and mud in the middle of nowhere for hours at a time. It's such a niche market I can't see it catching on but I am prepared to be pleasantly surprised :)


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 Post subject: Re: XTR 2015
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:56 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:24 pm
Posts: 601
Location: Fort St John
Personally for my own selfish reasons I can't wait for this release. Finally I can run a proper Di2 XTR trigger to a DuraAce rear derailleur with 11-28 cassette and 26/38 double rings up front. That is my perfect drivetrain.

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 Post subject: Re: XTR 2015
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:26 am 
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Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
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DanW wrote:
Add on top that it isn't easily user serviceable which isn't great for MTB when you are often out in the cold and mud in the middle of nowhere for hours at a time.
This is almost back to that old 2x 1x argument, the typical (global) customer for a Di2 won't be riding out in the cold and wet for hours with their top of the line 11 speed groupset. They'll be racing on it, maybe doing marathons.

And TBH, most failures of gear equipment is terminal, or at least all but unrepairable, in the field. Not many people carry spares when racing. And it's not like Di2 actually fails that often, at least, not in ways that your mechanical groupset can't. Snapped chains, bent cages and so on will still happen, electrical failure is less likely.


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 Post subject: Re: XTR 2015
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:59 am 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 10:21 am
Posts: 30
Bit off topic: Has anyone heard about factor of efficiency for chain drivetrain in case of using cogs less than 13T? Just for your thoughts...


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 Post subject: Re: XTR 2015
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:59 am 
  • 32.90 € (including 19% VAT)
  • 80 components


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 Post subject: Re: XTR 2015
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:53 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Posts: 2073
Yes, it starts to drop off rapidly as sprocket size decreases (and chain bend increases)

Can still remember that goldtec microdrive stuff they had back in the 90s. Massively light, massively expensive, massively bling. Ate chains and cassettes quicker than you could ever imagine! 9 tooth sprocket, 45 tooth chainring.


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