HOT: Active* forum members generally gain 5% discount at starbike.com store!
Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Articles FAQ Contact About




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:43 pm
Posts: 2838
Location: Canada
Need some opinions from you fellow weenies out there.

I am riding a RM vertex 29er. A pretty light carbon bike, XO equiped with some XX, RS sid RL and some light racing wheels. The frame must weight arround 950g.

I have a sponsorship opportunity for next season. Thing is the sponsorship involves some handmade columbus steel frames which are about double the weight of my vertex: 1850g approx.

The weight is a factor for me because im racing a lot and I need a good bike that wont slow me down and be hard to accelerate all the time. The other factor is the steel bike geometry: the TT is 12mm longer, the WB is 20mm longer (big concern?) and the CS length is 12mm longer. I am concerned with the WB being longer, will it make the bike feel much slower in the corners?

I'd get the new bike equiped full XTR and with a fox fork.

Thanks for insights.

_________________
My steel XPREZO 29er race bike
­Twitter


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:25 am
Posts: 2174
Location: Southern Indiana USA
I would not take the deal unless you don't care about winning. Way stretched out steel frames are not for racing and this sponsorship seems kind of mis-directed. They should be promoting these frames for people that want an easy riding comfortable bike and those people are not racers.

_________________
For certain parts stiffer is more important than lighter.


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:57 pm 


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:43 pm
Posts: 2838
Location: Canada
can you elaborate? Too long a WB?

_________________
My steel XPREZO 29er race bike
­Twitter


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:25 am
Posts: 2174
Location: Southern Indiana USA
Longer WB will slow down how fast you can maneuver. When you are racing in places with switchbacks, etc. you will have to take them slower since you can't turn as tight an arc.

_________________
For certain parts stiffer is more important than lighter.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2002 4:49 am
Posts: 1902
I somehow doubt a wheelbase increase of 1.9% will totally prevent a rider's ability to win a race.

I would be looking closely at position. The geometry sounds like it will have a steeper head tube, and slacker seat tube to generate the stated numbers, so you will have to see how you fit on it.

The XTR/Fox combo will also be heavier then the XX/RS combo, so weight will play a bigger factor.

_________________
Success is how far you you bounce back up after being knocked down


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:43 pm
Posts: 2838
Location: Canada
Humm not sure how much the XTR fox will be heavier but it should"nt be too bad. My current bike is full XO except grip shift XX.

The whole geometry thing has me thinking a lot.

_________________
My steel XPREZO 29er race bike
­Twitter


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:49 pm 
Online

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:23 am
Posts: 990
Location: Poland/Toronto
Geometry is a bit different but so is the frame material and properties.

Would you be able to test ride the bike/frame at LBS for example?

Chris.

_________________
MSC Koncept Carbon Di2 - 6955g
Leichtkraft Team Carbon - 6868g.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:23 pm
Posts: 405
Location: Midlands, United Kingdom
XTR should be a few g lighter than XO but you'll add a bit back with trigger shifters (unless you get some gripshifts for the XTR, bikediscount.de do some for about €40 for Shimano 10speed) from memory the Fox is a few g heavier than the SID.

Can you not move down a frame size to keep it more compact and use the seatpost and spacers to get back to where you are now?

I just can't see the logic of adding 1Kg to the bike and expecting to be as fast and giving them the coverage they want/expect, not going to happen.

_________________
Impoverished weight weenie wanna-be!
Budget 26" HT build viewtopic.php?f=10&t=110956


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:43 pm
Posts: 2838
Location: Canada
Good point TheRookie

here is the "new" bike geometry chart with ym current measure between ()

Small
ST: 406 (432)
TT: 575 (592)
CS: 445 (433)
STA: 73,5 (73)
HTA: 70 (70,25)
WB: 1087 (1087)
HTL: 102 (100)

Medium
ST: 457
TT: 605
CS: 445
STA: 73
HTA: 70
WB: 1111
HTL: 102

that would help a lot if you could analyse the measurements. Thanks

_________________
My steel XPREZO 29er race bike
­Twitter


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:47 am
Posts: 796
Location: somewere floating between here and the other side
I do not belive for a second that the steel frame is going to slow you down.
Sure a lightweight carbon frame or a lower bike weight might be good for the motivation but i honestly dont see 400 grams in a frame having huge disadvantages.

If you would be ridding heavy wheels or shitty tires i would have more concern. Geometry is something that might a litle getting used to...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:43 pm
Posts: 2838
Location: Canada
the frame is about 800g heavier so around 2 lbs heavier.

The geometry is actually a bigger concern for me then the weight is.

_________________
My steel XPREZO 29er race bike
­Twitter


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:23 pm
Posts: 405
Location: Midlands, United Kingdom
I'd definately be going with the small if you do it....

_________________
Impoverished weight weenie wanna-be!
Budget 26" HT build viewtopic.php?f=10&t=110956


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 418
Location: Tropical Wales
If the "TT" length is an "effective top tube length" then I would personally say you will notice a difference in either the new small or medium sizes (assuming your current bike fits perfectly). For example on the small you would probably be looking at a 110 or 120mm stem compared to the 100mm stem on your RM and I'm not sure if that would handle great with the reasonably wide bars you run. Steering would be slower and probably feel a bit more cumbersome in the slow singletrack where you might also feel like you are tucking over the front wheel a bit with your weight further forward on the bike (hard to describe!). Climbing out of the saddle with your weight centered too far forwards on a smaller frame might be hard going too with the rear wheel skipping all over the place. Kind of the opposite for the large new frame where you would be on a 80 or 90mm stem to keep your reach the same. I would have thought longer wheelbase and shorter stem required for the new medium would more or less balance each other out with how slow or nippy the steering feels and ride better than the small, especially out of the saddle where it should be easier to get your weight distribution better.

I think the main point is that the geometry looks different enough to feel some difference in the ride. Whether or not it the difference in feel is something you get used to quickly or simply can't get on with I don't know!

If it handmade steel surely this is the best material and manufacturing process to get custom geometry... Is that an option?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:23 pm
Posts: 405
Location: Midlands, United Kingdom
HA is pretty much the same, WB the same, logic says to move the saddle back to the same effective place lengthening the cockpit and he'll be in the same place on the same WB....or is that too obvious?

So either a setback in place of inline or a greater setback post combined with sliding the saddle back if necesary to the limit on the rails.

_________________
Impoverished weight weenie wanna-be!
Budget 26" HT build viewtopic.php?f=10&t=110956


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:07 pm 


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:43 pm
Posts: 2838
Location: Canada
I would Idealy like to keep a reasonably short stem, 100mm

I have a 25mm setback seapost waiting for a build...

_________________
My steel XPREZO 29er race bike
­Twitter


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. New bike dilemma - Steel/Electronic vs Ti/Mechanical

[ Go to page: 1, 2 ]

in Road

solarider

18

938

Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:56 am

Jagcolo View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Fausto Coppi steel aero bike project 2

[ Go to page: 1, 2 ]

in Introduce Yourself / Gallery - Please use metric weights.

SWijland

26

3062

Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:55 pm

SWijland View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Stainless Steel or Traditional Steel?

in Road

HugoDrax

12

937

Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:20 pm

shlammed View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Any foods that make your performance tank

[ Go to page: 1, 2, 3, 4 ]

in Training

kevinkalis

53

3293

Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:34 pm

Lewis View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Shimano DA9000 C35 Aero Performance

in Everything wheels

benhama

1

462

Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:36 pm

ultyguy View the latest post


It is currently Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:22 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Advertising   –  FAQ   –  Contact   –  Convert   –  About

© Weight Weenies 2000-2013
hosted by starbike.com


How to get rid of these ads? Just register!


Powered by phpBB