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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:05 am
Posts: 20
Hi, I am a wanna-be weight weenie with Pivot Mach 429 Carbon and i love that frame, everything else can be changed and i have a second frame to be built, where I can reuse the replaced parts. I also have 3 sets of wheels, one of those will go to the 2nd frame (most likely Dt Swiss XR400 w/ 240/240s that have some issues handling my weight).

My project goal is to get the bike below 11 kg for next season occasional XCM races and long single track rides (10 h / 100 km +). I am a big guy, but target is to weight 90 kg by next summer, so I need some parts to be robust and stiff (like my frame and rims). My first focus is on low hanging fruits, big parts and i have already done some investments. The bolts etc. can be the last resort.

Starting weight is 13,5 kg, but unfortunately I have not got weights for individual parts.
Any advice, hint or comment is welcome.

Here is the setup (current part -> replaced with part (either bouhgt or considering to buy), all parts from 2012

Frame: Pivot Mach 429 Carbon - size L
Shock: FOX FLOAT CTD KASHIMA
Fork: Fox 32 Talas 29 120 FIT RLC -> RS Sid rtc3 ? (Is this worth changing?)
Cranks: Shimano XTR M980 38/26 -> Raceface Next SL 2014 30t
BB: Shimano BB92
Front mech: Shimano XTR -> none
Rear mech: Shimano XTR M985 Shadow long gage (or XX1 ?)
Cassette: Shimano XT 11-36t -> Shimano XTR M980 11-36t (or XX1)
Chains: Shinano XTR (-> XX1 ???)
Shifters: Shimano XTR ( -> XX1)
Brakes: Shimano XTR Trail BR-M988 Disc Brake System
Brake pads: Shimano XTR M985 resin (ice tech)
Brake discs: Shimano XTR center lock -> Shimano XT RT-86 ice tech 6-bolts
Rims: Stan's NoTubes ZTR ArchEx 29" 32-holes with Stan's tubeless kit -> Enve 29er AM with Enve tubeless kit
Spokes: ?? / DT Aerolite bladed spokes
Hubs: (rear / front): Hope Evo 2 Pro -> DT Swiss 240/240s
Tyres (front/rear): Schwalbe Hans Dampf/Maxxis high roller II -> Racing Ralph/Racing Ralph (might try Thunder Burt for races ?)
Stem: Raceface Turbine 70 mm-> ??
Bar: Pivot Phoenix Carbon Riser (700 mm) -> RF Next 3/4" Carbon Raiser 725 mm
(has anyone idea how much that phoenix bar might weight)
Grips: Pivot lock-on -> ??
Seat post: RS Reverb -> KS Lev Carbon (?) / Syntace P6 Carbon High-flex
Saddle: SDG Falcon -> ???
Pedals: Shimano XT trail -> Raceface Atlas (which one to be used depends on the trail)
All bolts, cables & wires: standard or bulk

The planned changes should get me close 11 kg, but where I could improve or should do otherwise than planned ?

EDIT 1: Updated missing components
EDIT 2: Fixed some component / added details
EDIT 3: few components updated


Last edited by Maggo on Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:43 pm
Posts: 2906
Location: Canada
Brakes are pretty heavy. You could switch to xtr 985 or 987 if you want to keep it shimano. Otherwise formula R1 or magura MT8


My blog: www.cyclingtrainingnuts.blogspot.ca


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Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:29 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 515
Location: Tropical Wales
Sub 10-10.5kg should be doable for your weight eventually so that is the good news :D

If you are riding 100km over 10 hours then you might find 1x10 hard going, especially if doing hilly marathons.

I'd save money by buying Light-Bicycle rims rather than Enve (on your 240 hubs with CX-Rays) and put the money in to XX1.
Most 120mm 29er forks seem heavy so that will need a bit of research to get the best weight/ performance ratio
Not much lighter than Raceface Next SL cranks! Go for a direct mount ring too.
Brakes and rotors are very heavy. Newest XTR M987 with Hope X2 Race rotors would be my pick but you may get on with R1's or MT8's
Racing Ralph F, Thunder Burt R should be great in the dry, maybe have the other wheelset set up for rockier/ muddier rides
Tubeless of course with American Classic valves
MT Zoom do a great value wide, strong bar which might be worth a look for you
Most 70mm stems should be robust (even WW XC ones). The RF Turbine isn't super heavy so something like a Syntace F109 or KCNC SC Wing or Ritchey might be worth a look
Foam grips like the Bontrager XXX or the £5 ones on ebay are more more comfortable than you think and will save a big chunk
Do you *need* a dropper. Tons of weight to be shed here if you go with a normal seatpost but you'd be lucky to save 100g I think switching to a KS Lev Carbon
Mt Zoom 6g seatclamp is a bargain and very robust
Saddle is very heavy at around 260g. Easy 100g+ to be saved there without whatever your behind get on well with
XTR race pedals should do you fine and save a fair bit

I would say being a weight weenie (especially in MTB) is a mentality rather than purely about the end weight. You need to know what your current stuff weighs and the real weights of the parts you are thinking of and get a spreadsheet set up. It is all about consistency of weight savings (a few big heavy bits throws all the hard work out of whack) and attention to detail. Things like bolts, brake adapters, seatclamp, grips can be easy to ignore but add a lot of g's.

Good luck and post up pictures as you go! Great looking frame :D


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:05 am
Posts: 20
Thanks devinci and Dan,

Devinci, awesome blog, I have read your posts from your HT project and got some ideas.

Dan, good ideas, especially making the full excel from the current setup. Some points:
- Enves I already have, as I got a good deal on a pair, running tubeless, naturally.
- dropper post is a must on the single tracks we ride, it gets pretty technical from time to time, for XCM races i could consider normal post, like the Syntace P6 Carbon hiflex I have as well as using XTR race pedals

I need to investigate this brake thing more carefully as you both pointed out, I could consider replacing them as well. I am pretty happy with the braking power that these babies have, as with backpacks + winter gear I weight at this point 107 kg.

Question regarding the RF Next SL 1 x 10 setup, as you pointed out, it might be quite tough to ride a long trips with it, would those cranks work with XX1 cassette, shifter & rear mech or should I consider full XX1 instead ?

Will take some pictures from start setup, and then of course pictures from my path to sub 11 kg.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 515
Location: Tropical Wales
Quote:
would those cranks work with XX1 cassette, shifter & rear mech


Yes no problem. A narrow/ wide ring will be needed for either 1x10 or XX1 and runs great on both. A direct mount ring will save some nice weight over a spider and 4 bolt ring.

Brake-wise XTR 985 (race) and 988 (trail) use the same calipers as far as I am aware and the trails gain a few extra adjustments on the lever. Shimano claim only 8-9% more power on the trails (plus you those daft finned pads which seem a little pointless). I would imagine you'd be happy with 985's. New 987's are lighter but no-one really know's how these perform yet as they're so new- the hope is the same but lighter!

Do you already have the frame and some pics to tease us with :D


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:05 am
Posts: 20
Here is the only shot i have in my hands

Image

Just fresh from local dealer in October, i only changed the frame, everything else is from previous bike. Stan's wheels will stay as my 2nd pair for wet/snow/muddy conditions. While dieting, i need to give thought to the color coding as well.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:35 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:05 am
Posts: 20
Updated the component list ! This is going to be interesting journey.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:23 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:23 pm
Posts: 417
Location: Midlands, United Kingdom
DanW wrote:
I would say being a weight weenie (especially in MTB) is a mentality rather than purely about the end weight. You need to know what your current stuff weighs and the real weights of the parts you are thinking of and get a spreadsheet set up. It is all about consistency of weight savings (a few big heavy bits throws all the hard work out of whack) and attention to detail.

THIS, very much so, it's all about knowing the parts on your bike and looking for every opportunity, especially if you are on a tightish budget (as oposed to money literally being no object).

My Hardtail (link in sig but I need to update the thread following a few changes) is sub 10Kg and cost me about £700 in bits on it, your frame/shock is probably nearly 1Kg heavier and 29er is heavier than 26er, but it may give you some ideas.

Changing lock on to push on foam grips will be an easy 120g for less than £10/€12/$16.

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Impoverished weight weenie wanna-be!
Budget 26" HT build viewtopic.php?f=10&t=110956


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 515
Location: Tropical Wales
Weightweenies are pretty lucky nowadays as the price of light strong parts has come down enormously since the days when Schmolke, AX and Tune exclusively dominated everything... for a price. I built up my Scalpel to 8.26kg for £250 more than you frame cost from all new parts so light, strong and cheap is certainly do-able. All it takes is attention to detail and patience for bargains :D


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:01 pm
Posts: 11
Hi Magoo!

Maybe my in most cases very similar build up, could help you for your Project.

Frame: Intense Spider Comp 29 2630(inc. all Bolts and X12 Axle)
Fork: Rockshox Revealtion 2014 130mm 1760(shortened incl. 15mm Fastener)
Headset: Cane Creek 40 Tapered 108
Headset Cap. incl Starnut: 15
Stem 3t ARX Pro 2 -17° 80mm 128
Bar: Ritchey X-Trail +-5 710mm Flat 181
Grips: Esi Grips race black 50
Rims: Light Bicycle 29 wide
Wheel front: total incl 180mm Disc 1675
Wheel rear: total incl Ashima Ai2 180mm Disc-11-36 XTR 1965
Tubes: Stans
Reifen S-works Ground Control 2.3(incl. in Wheel)
Reifen S-works Ground Control 2.3(incl. in Wheel)
Schalthüllen XTR
Gear: XTR 10s 2013
Rear Derail.: XTR 10s 2013 220
Brake-Gear Combi incl Hoses Caliper, Discpads Screws, Adapter 715
Front Derail.: Shimano XTR Directmount 2x 117
Bremsen Hope X2 Race Evo
Ashima Ai2 180mm
Seatpost: Rockshox Reverb 380mm 120mm 31.8 573
Saddle: Selle Italia SLR Carbonio 130
Seatclamp: KCNC 11.5
Chain: XTR 260
Chainset: TA Specialites Zelito/Zephyr 22-36 10x
Crank: Cannondale Hollowgram, 22-36, e*thirteen BB 564 (now RF Next SL with similar weight!!)
Innenlager E*thirteen BB92
Pedals: Look Quartz Carbon Ti 240
Cassette: XTR 11-36
Bottlecage:
Smallparts, Grease & Air 40

TOTAL: ca. 11450

You see, my build ist more AM orientated for long and heavy alpine Mountain Trails(Tires, Reverb, Wheels....). My next plan is a lighter Wheelset(around 150-180g less).

Hope it helps...

Image

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:05 am
Posts: 20
TheRookie wrote:
thinking
THIS, very much so, it's all about knowing the parts on your bike and looking for every opportunity, especially if you are on a tightish budget (as oposed to money literally being no object).


I do understand what you and Dan are saying and totally agree.

Budget perspective I am pretty flexible, for important parts where i really see benefit from bike riding performance and weight saving (like gears, brakes) i can go for the best, but e.g. Stems i don't see any sense paying 600 bucks to get the lightest, i can take the extra 20 grams. Opposite example could be grips, light foam grips are definetly cheap and light, but do they do their deeds (used to have ones, but didn't use that bike to singletracks and trails). I will give them a shot.

Btw. TheRookie, sig was missing so no link, i assume i will find it anyway.

PS. My Frame weight is 2.7 kg, need to verify this, I know 2 builds with this frame that are sub 10.5 kg, but did not like those setups, as they were too XC oriented

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:05 am
Posts: 20
Zweigelt wrote:
Hi Magoo!

Maybe my in most cases very similar build up, could help you for your Project.

Frame: Intense Spider Comp 29 2630(inc. all Bolts and X12 Axle)
Fork: ...


Thanks for your setup, I definetly got some ideas that i will investigate further.

PS. Nice looking bike.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:58 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:23 pm
Posts: 417
Location: Midlands, United Kingdom
Maggo wrote:
TheRookie wrote:
thinking
Opposite example could be grips, light foam grips are definetly cheap and light, but do they do their deeds (used to have ones, but didn't use that bike to singletracks and trails). I will give them a shot.

Btw. TheRookie, sig was missing so no link, i assume i will find it anyway.

PS. My Frame weight is 2.7 kg, need to verify this, I know 2 builds with this frame that are sub 10.5 kg, but did not like those setups, as they were too XC oriented

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I can see the link in my sig, so maybe an ipad/TT issue.

That frame weight is spot on 1Kg more than my HT.

I use the KCNC grips, I have had them on my commuter for 3 years/3000 miles and other than a couple of nicks off the end they still feel just like the day they were fitted, they have been on the MTB for about 18moths and are still as new, they are the same part (pretty much) as Titec Porkrinds or an Avenir model, so buy the cheapest.

_________________
Impoverished weight weenie wanna-be!
Budget 26" HT build viewtopic.php?f=10&t=110956


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:05 am
Posts: 20
TheRookie wrote:
I can see the link in my sig, so maybe an ipad/TT issue.

I use the KCNC grips, I have had them on my commuter for 3 years/3000 miles and other than a couple of nicks off the end they still feel just like the day they were fitted, they have been on the MTB for about 18moths and are still as new, they are the same part (pretty much) as Titec Porkrinds or an Avenir model, so buy the cheapest.


Yes, it was iPad issue, can see it now from PC ;)

I will check those grips, perhaps even give them a chance.

Then to Saddles:

Selle Italia SLR C64 - unbelievably light and going out of sales, so good offers available. Does anyone have any experience on this (perhaps I need to search the forum first ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:05 am
Posts: 20
First ww component ordered & arrived, Merek Mega SQ1 (114g) replacing SDG Falcon Ti-Alloy (254g)

Old:
Image

New:
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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:13 pm 


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